4 ms·

I only clicked on 15 or so from the areas that I have lived but they were all airports and land fills. That tells me that our personal consumption is a big prob

I only clicked on 15 or so from the areas that I have lived but they were all airports and land fills. That tells me that our personal consumption is a big problem and we as individuals can make a difference. Quick disclaimer though I have always thought that pollution is more an individual consumption problem so I am biased to that conclusion.

dimitrios1 4y ago
This is always going to be the case. Corporations produce more to meet demands of consumers. If there was no demand, there would be no production and hence no subsequent pollution (if that consumption results in pollution). Why do your power plants need to generate more power? Because we need more power now since more of us have more gadgets and bullshit to power. Why does your local bottling company use so much plastic bottles? Because we think it's a genius idea to drink so much water out of single use plastic bottles. I could think of hundreds of examples, but yes, we drive so much more than we think. Everything is connected in a web of relationships. We blame the big corporations so much, but at the end of the day the [overwhelming majority of ] corporations are there because there are individuals giving them dollars. The problem, however, is this is effectively a truism, and doesn't really help to solve much in the immediate term. It takes generations to shape consumer habits.
- DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  > Corporations produce more to meet demands of consumers. Let me rephrase: Corporations produce more to meet demands of consumers....However corporations maximize GHG emissions in order to deliver at a lower cost and maximize their revenue. Corporations are continually allowed to externalize production costs with environmental impact because no one is stopping them from doing so either by regulation or supply-side shortage. The ability to deliver goods is dissociable from GHG emissions. This whole spin of making companies somehow victims of consumers is corporate bullshit.
  - dimitrios1 4y ago
    Nobody said victims, that's your own lens coming into play there. Everyone wants cheap, fast, convenient, and quick. Everyone. I suppose if you don't think this plays into corporate behavior then we don't have much of a chance of discussion here. Perhaps I misspoke by saying consumers, what I should say is, more broadly, people. Corporations get away with it because politicians, local or otherwise, don't hold them accountable, because the consumers (people) don't vote people in that will, or vote the people out that are not. For what reasons? Laziness? Too busy being poor (yes definitely some of this)? Indifference? Imperfect information? A little bit of this and that? God only knows. We can only presume. Either way, you cannot escape the web of relationships we all live in on this earth is my broader point.
DoingIsLearning 4y ago
> I only clicked on 15 or so from the areas that I have lived but they were all airports and land fills. That tells me that our personal consumption is a big problem. I only clicked on 15 or so from the areas that I have lived but they were all Coal/Biomass plants, Steel Industry. This tells me that government policy both on energy and environmental standards is a big problem. However excessive corporate influence on government policy limits our ability to implement the necessary regulations to end this. Just to prove the point that cherry picking anecdata allows you to draw from the data whatever you want.

dimitrios1 4y ago

This is always going to be the case. Corporations produce more to meet demands of consumers. If there was no demand, there would be no production and hence no subsequent pollution (if that consumption results in pollution). Why do your power plants need to generate more power? Because we need more power now since more of us have more gadgets and bullshit to power. Why does your local bottling company use so much plastic bottles? Because we think it's a genius idea to drink so much water out of single use plastic bottles. I could think of hundreds of examples, but yes, we drive so much more than we think. Everything is connected in a web of relationships. We blame the big corporations so much, but at the end of the day the [overwhelming majority of ] corporations are there because there are individuals giving them dollars. The problem, however, is this is effectively a truism, and doesn't really help to solve much in the immediate term. It takes generations to shape consumer habits.

DoingIsLearning 4y ago
> Corporations produce more to meet demands of consumers. Let me rephrase: Corporations produce more to meet demands of consumers....However corporations maximize GHG emissions in order to deliver at a lower cost and maximize their revenue. Corporations are continually allowed to externalize production costs with environmental impact because no one is stopping them from doing so either by regulation or supply-side shortage. The ability to deliver goods is dissociable from GHG emissions. This whole spin of making companies somehow victims of consumers is corporate bullshit.
- dimitrios1 4y ago
  Nobody said victims, that's your own lens coming into play there. Everyone wants cheap, fast, convenient, and quick. Everyone. I suppose if you don't think this plays into corporate behavior then we don't have much of a chance of discussion here. Perhaps I misspoke by saying consumers, what I should say is, more broadly, people. Corporations get away with it because politicians, local or otherwise, don't hold them accountable, because the consumers (people) don't vote people in that will, or vote the people out that are not. For what reasons? Laziness? Too busy being poor (yes definitely some of this)? Indifference? Imperfect information? A little bit of this and that? God only knows. We can only presume. Either way, you cannot escape the web of relationships we all live in on this earth is my broader point.

DoingIsLearning 4y ago

> I only clicked on 15 or so from the areas that I have lived but they were all airports and land fills. That tells me that our personal consumption is a big problem. I only clicked on 15 or so from the areas that I have lived but they were all Coal/Biomass plants, Steel Industry. This tells me that government policy both on energy and environmental standards is a big problem. However excessive corporate influence on government policy limits our ability to implement the necessary regulations to end this. Just to prove the point that cherry picking anecdata allows you to draw from the data whatever you want.