4 ms·

I've always wondered if it would be possible to humiliate companies/elites into changing their behavior by maintaining well-publicied and well-informed director

by jarbus 4y ago

I've always wondered if it would be possible to humiliate companies/elites into changing their behavior by maintaining well-publicied and well-informed directories of the most harmful entities to society

mvdwoord 4y ago
Define harmful.
- DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  Companies that directly or indirectly most contribute to GHG, in _all_ their operations, including suppliers, manufacturing, logistics.
- socialismisok 4y ago
  We can start with: is the top N% of pollution generators, independently tracking particulates, greenhouse gasses, plastic waste, pfas, fly ash, water pollutants, etc. Make N% approximately 10%. You've then got a pretty good start on "harmful".
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jeffbee 4y ago
The "elites" in this situation are hundreds of millions of Americans driving trucks through the drive-thru at Hardees. It's not three guys you can browbeat into submission. It's an entire broken culture.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  nice rant but no -- the data on the site shows that individual transportation is NOT at the top of emitters; rather it is industrial infrastructure that creates fuels and industrial infrastructure using fuels for heavy materials. https://climatetrace.org/explore https://climatetrace.org/explore
  - gruez 4y ago
    Guess what "industrial infrastructure that creates fuels and industrial infrastructure using fuels for heavy materials" is overwhelmingly used for? Hint, it's not for mega yachts and Musk/Bezos rockets.
- dfxm12 4y ago
  Even if this was the only/biggest source, you can browbeat the automotive industry to stop making so many heavy, gas guzzling vehicles. You can browbeat politicians into prioritizing public transportation & vehicle regulations over lobbying efforts from the automotive industry. Our "broken culture" isn't innate in us, it was designed.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    The US government could overturn the "pickup war" instantly - just make vehicles under a certain (small) size entirely tax-free in various ways. The market would adapt quite quickly.
    - jeffbee 4y ago
      Or states can adopt the minor and simple policies of California, where incrementally higher registration fees by weight, commercial registration for all pickups, and fuel taxes only slightly higher than other states and nowhere near as high as other developed nations have led to a private vehicle fleet with no trucks among the top-selling vehicles.
      - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
        As 12 states have done: https://mde.maryland.gov/programs/air/mobilesources/pages/states.aspx https://mde.maryland.gov/programs/air/mobilesources/pages/st... No surprises, it's the "states you'd actually want to live in" overrepresented as per usual.
        jeffbee 4y ago
        That's not even one of the measures that I mentioned, but yes!
- kcplate 4y ago
  It most certainly is the fault of a bunch of blue collar working stiffs grabbing a sausage biscuit and a coffee on the way to a job that a bunch of sanctimonious SWEs rely on every day in a thousand different ways, but pretend like are unimportant dinosaurs in a digital world. I mean, all that electricity and raw materials mined for those 15 billion computing devices running all the shite social media code that SV SWEs have foisted upon the world doesn’t have any impact at all…it’s just that poor bastard in his F150 and his damned sandwich.
gruez 4y ago
Elites: I think you're overestimating how much of a contribution "elites" add to co2 consumption. They might emit disproportionately higher co2 than the median citizen, but that's canceled out by the fact that they're so few of them. Companies: Works great in theory[1], not so well in practice[2]. Turns out most people only pay lip service to climate change/environment, and scatter at the prospect of paying out of pocket for it. [1] https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/ycom-us-2018/ https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/yc... [2] https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Initiative_1631,_Carbon_Emissions_Fee_Measure_(2018) https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Initiative_1631,_Carbon_E...
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Interestingly, Washington State passed a carbon fee proposal that's basically the same as that, shortly after. It's a widely used tool, because it's efficient and therefore cheap. It's only really the US that lags on putting a price on emissions. Mostly because their legislation mechanisms are in the pocket of big oil.
  - gruez 4y ago
    >Interestingly, Washington State passed a carbon fee proposal that's basically the same as that, shortly after Source? It took me a few minutes to find what the piece of legislation was called (Climate Commitment Act), but it's surprisingly hard to find what the bill actually does. The first result I found was a website from the state of washington[1], which only contains vague statements like "A market-based solution" and "Cleaner air for overburdened communities", without actual concrete measures. The second result from washington state university[2] isn't much better. It seems like the bill institutes some sort of cap and trade system with details to be hammered out later, which isn't the same as a straight carbon tax (as proposed in the ballot measure) and the financial impact is much less clear. I suspect the latter is why it was passed at all. [1] https://ecology.wa.gov/Air-Climate/Climate-Commitment-Act https://ecology.wa.gov/Air-Climate/Climate-Commitment-Act [2] https://csanr.wsu.edu/the-climate-commitment-act-is-coming/ https://csanr.wsu.edu/the-climate-commitment-act-is-coming/

by jarbus 4y ago

mvdwoord 4y ago

Define harmful.

DoingIsLearning 4y ago
Companies that directly or indirectly most contribute to GHG, in _all_ their operations, including suppliers, manufacturing, logistics.
socialismisok 4y ago
We can start with: is the top N% of pollution generators, independently tracking particulates, greenhouse gasses, plastic waste, pfas, fly ash, water pollutants, etc. Make N% approximately 10%. You've then got a pretty good start on "harmful".

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jeffbee 4y ago

The "elites" in this situation are hundreds of millions of Americans driving trucks through the drive-thru at Hardees. It's not three guys you can browbeat into submission. It's an entire broken culture.

mistrial9 4y ago
nice rant but no -- the data on the site shows that individual transportation is NOT at the top of emitters; rather it is industrial infrastructure that creates fuels and industrial infrastructure using fuels for heavy materials. https://climatetrace.org/explore https://climatetrace.org/explore
- gruez 4y ago
  Guess what "industrial infrastructure that creates fuels and industrial infrastructure using fuels for heavy materials" is overwhelmingly used for? Hint, it's not for mega yachts and Musk/Bezos rockets.
dfxm12 4y ago
Even if this was the only/biggest source, you can browbeat the automotive industry to stop making so many heavy, gas guzzling vehicles. You can browbeat politicians into prioritizing public transportation & vehicle regulations over lobbying efforts from the automotive industry. Our "broken culture" isn't innate in us, it was designed.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The US government could overturn the "pickup war" instantly - just make vehicles under a certain (small) size entirely tax-free in various ways. The market would adapt quite quickly.
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    Or states can adopt the minor and simple policies of California, where incrementally higher registration fees by weight, commercial registration for all pickups, and fuel taxes only slightly higher than other states and nowhere near as high as other developed nations have led to a private vehicle fleet with no trucks among the top-selling vehicles.
    - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
      As 12 states have done: https://mde.maryland.gov/programs/air/mobilesources/pages/states.aspx https://mde.maryland.gov/programs/air/mobilesources/pages/st... No surprises, it's the "states you'd actually want to live in" overrepresented as per usual.
      - jeffbee 4y ago
        That's not even one of the measures that I mentioned, but yes!
kcplate 4y ago
It most certainly is the fault of a bunch of blue collar working stiffs grabbing a sausage biscuit and a coffee on the way to a job that a bunch of sanctimonious SWEs rely on every day in a thousand different ways, but pretend like are unimportant dinosaurs in a digital world. I mean, all that electricity and raw materials mined for those 15 billion computing devices running all the shite social media code that SV SWEs have foisted upon the world doesn’t have any impact at all…it’s just that poor bastard in his F150 and his damned sandwich.

gruez 4y ago

Elites: I think you're overestimating how much of a contribution "elites" add to co2 consumption. They might emit disproportionately higher co2 than the median citizen, but that's canceled out by the fact that they're so few of them. Companies: Works great in theory[1], not so well in practice[2]. Turns out most people only pay lip service to climate change/environment, and scatter at the prospect of paying out of pocket for it. [1] https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/ycom-us-2018/ https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/yc... [2] https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Initiative_1631,_Carbon_Emissions_Fee_Measure_(2018) https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Initiative_1631,_Carbon_E...

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Interestingly, Washington State passed a carbon fee proposal that's basically the same as that, shortly after. It's a widely used tool, because it's efficient and therefore cheap. It's only really the US that lags on putting a price on emissions. Mostly because their legislation mechanisms are in the pocket of big oil.
- gruez 4y ago
  >Interestingly, Washington State passed a carbon fee proposal that's basically the same as that, shortly after Source? It took me a few minutes to find what the piece of legislation was called (Climate Commitment Act), but it's surprisingly hard to find what the bill actually does. The first result I found was a website from the state of washington[1], which only contains vague statements like "A market-based solution" and "Cleaner air for overburdened communities", without actual concrete measures. The second result from washington state university[2] isn't much better. It seems like the bill institutes some sort of cap and trade system with details to be hammered out later, which isn't the same as a straight carbon tax (as proposed in the ballot measure) and the financial impact is much less clear. I suspect the latter is why it was passed at all. [1] https://ecology.wa.gov/Air-Climate/Climate-Commitment-Act https://ecology.wa.gov/Air-Climate/Climate-Commitment-Act [2] https://csanr.wsu.edu/the-climate-commitment-act-is-coming/ https://csanr.wsu.edu/the-climate-commitment-act-is-coming/