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by DiogenesKynikos 4y ago

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arminiusreturns 4y ago
throwcean 4y ago
[flagged]
- coinbasetwwa 4y ago
  Ya, after watching the bodily reactions of family members that led up to death in some cases I’d never go out on a limb to get that shot for a dollar. But the “lived experience” crowd sure don’t want to hear about mine.
Danieru 4y ago
I assume OP was in a situation where he was being threatened with being fired. Or at least that sounds like the situation he is alluding to.
Veelox 4y ago
I am assuming you haven't spent much time around the kind of people that didn't approve of the vaccine. Let me write out a string of thoughts that support saying empathy isn't a great core principle. At the start of the pandemic we are told it's no big deal. Then a few weeks later it's a massive deal. At first masks don't work so don't rush out and buy them. Then masks are mandatory in all public places. We then put society on hold for about a year. Finally we have an experimental drug that helps you be protected from the virus. YOU MUST TAKE THE DRUG! Don't want it? YOU MUST TAKE THE DRUG! You already had COVID and recovered? YOU MUST TAKE THE DRUG! You had a legitimate medical reaction to a previous vaccine? YOU MUST TAKE THE DRUG! That process broke the trust of a significant amount of people. Why trust the establishment when they change their minds all the time and demand demand demand? If they do all these things in the name of empathy, empathy shouldn't be the base principle.
- scrollaway 4y ago
  Empathy isn’t the core principle of getting vaccinated. It’s just one of the reasons; and you cannot claim to be empathetic if you refuse to do it out of something that isn’t medical exemption. The actual reasons are self preservation and slowing down a pandemic. And when people don’t care about the latter, that is an easy tell that yeah they have zero empathy.
  - peteradio 4y ago
    In order to guard against a future of mandated experimental treatments I refused to get vaccinated. I did this out of empathy for my children.
    - scrollaway 4y ago
      "Empathy for my children [and nobody else's]" is a good round-about way of saying "for entirely selfish reasons". Especially since your actions do absolutely nothing to advance that goal you likely just made up now. If the governments have learned anything, it's that mandates need to be quicker and stronger, with much more stringent penalties for the dodgers. So yeah... thanks for nothing.
- coinbasetwwa 4y ago
  Yep, pretty much hits the nail on the head. It’s not so much about empathy vs. feigning it for internet points. I can empathize with the situation in OP, but not in an outsized proportion to what’s occurred in society in the past few years. The same folks repping “empathy” were laughing to the bank when humans were locked in cages for getting around the vaccine mandate in their own way. There’s people who were forced to sell their homes, lost their jobs, and can’t move back to the place they grew up right here on American soil - in layman’s terms, I’m out of f’s to give.
- DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
  Objectively, the vaccine is extremely low risk, and the benefit is orders of magnitude larger than the risk for almost all groups. I understand that some people have an irrational fear of the vaccine, and I can even try to empathize with them to that extent. However, it still is very difficult to understand the level of opposition to something which is so simple (just two painless injections, each taking seconds to administer) and so overwhelmingly positive (a 90+% reduction in the chance of serious disease, in exchange for a vanishingly small risk). Public health messaging in the US was terrible, but US public health agencies were extremely cautious with the vaccines. If they hadn't cared about testing the vaccines, the vaccines could have been rolled out by mid-2020. After all, the vaccines were formulated all the way back in January 2020, pretty much as soon as the viral RNA sequence was published. I think it's sad that people have the impression that the vaccines were not thoroughly tested, because they were actually subjected to an extremely high level of scrutiny. They weren't approved until full-scale phase-3 trials with tens of thousands of participants had shown that the risk of severe side-effects was minuscule (i.e., as low as in other approved, safe vaccines). The vaccine saved on the order of a million lives in the US. It's one of the most unambiguously positive things developed by humankind. That's why the strident opposition is so difficult to understand - it points to something very wrong in society.
chiefalchemist 4y ago
> Trivial and harmless? First, there's history. Second, the POTUS himself - self proclaimed enemy of divisiveness - yapped "pandemic of the unvaccinated." Which was a lie. A lie for which he has yet to acknowledge, let alone apologize for. The point is, people with an appreciation for history, and a willingness to exert their God given rights were being manipulated and maligned. That's not cool. That's not unifying. To see it as trivial and harmless says more about you buying into the ruse than anything else. History is clear my friend...be careful what you wish for, especially when your government is making big promises that hinge on your convenience and someone else's loss of liberty.
- scrollaway 4y ago
  Not everybody on this website is American, you know.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - chiefalchemist 4y ago
    And that has what to do with my comment? And the comment it was replying directly to?
- coinbasetwwa 4y ago
  You hit the nail on the head. It’s sad that people can’t see past their views to see the world for what it is.
- DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
  There's a long history of vaccine requirements, including in the US. For example, NY state requires that children attending daycare or school be vaccinated against a range of pathogens. I don't know what you're envisioning happening with mandatory SARS-CoV-2 vaccination, or why you consider it a "ruse." A "ruse" for what, exactly? I don't think mandatory vaccination equals anyone's "loss of liberty." I don't think there's a right to not be vaccinated. It's a critical public health measure that brings huge benefits to society, and which imposes virtually no burden on the individual.

[flagged]

arminiusreturns 4y ago

throwcean 4y ago

[flagged]

coinbasetwwa 4y ago
Ya, after watching the bodily reactions of family members that led up to death in some cases I’d never go out on a limb to get that shot for a dollar. But the “lived experience” crowd sure don’t want to hear about mine.

Danieru 4y ago

I assume OP was in a situation where he was being threatened with being fired. Or at least that sounds like the situation he is alluding to.

Veelox 4y ago

I am assuming you haven't spent much time around the kind of people that didn't approve of the vaccine. Let me write out a string of thoughts that support saying empathy isn't a great core principle. At the start of the pandemic we are told it's no big deal. Then a few weeks later it's a massive deal. At first masks don't work so don't rush out and buy them. Then masks are mandatory in all public places. We then put society on hold for about a year. Finally we have an experimental drug that helps you be protected from the virus. YOU MUST TAKE THE DRUG! Don't want it? YOU MUST TAKE THE DRUG! You already had COVID and recovered? YOU MUST TAKE THE DRUG! You had a legitimate medical reaction to a previous vaccine? YOU MUST TAKE THE DRUG! That process broke the trust of a significant amount of people. Why trust the establishment when they change their minds all the time and demand demand demand? If they do all these things in the name of empathy, empathy shouldn't be the base principle.

scrollaway 4y ago
Empathy isn’t the core principle of getting vaccinated. It’s just one of the reasons; and you cannot claim to be empathetic if you refuse to do it out of something that isn’t medical exemption. The actual reasons are self preservation and slowing down a pandemic. And when people don’t care about the latter, that is an easy tell that yeah they have zero empathy.
- peteradio 4y ago
  In order to guard against a future of mandated experimental treatments I refused to get vaccinated. I did this out of empathy for my children.
  - scrollaway 4y ago
    "Empathy for my children [and nobody else's]" is a good round-about way of saying "for entirely selfish reasons". Especially since your actions do absolutely nothing to advance that goal you likely just made up now. If the governments have learned anything, it's that mandates need to be quicker and stronger, with much more stringent penalties for the dodgers. So yeah... thanks for nothing.
coinbasetwwa 4y ago
Yep, pretty much hits the nail on the head. It’s not so much about empathy vs. feigning it for internet points. I can empathize with the situation in OP, but not in an outsized proportion to what’s occurred in society in the past few years. The same folks repping “empathy” were laughing to the bank when humans were locked in cages for getting around the vaccine mandate in their own way. There’s people who were forced to sell their homes, lost their jobs, and can’t move back to the place they grew up right here on American soil - in layman’s terms, I’m out of f’s to give.
DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
Objectively, the vaccine is extremely low risk, and the benefit is orders of magnitude larger than the risk for almost all groups. I understand that some people have an irrational fear of the vaccine, and I can even try to empathize with them to that extent. However, it still is very difficult to understand the level of opposition to something which is so simple (just two painless injections, each taking seconds to administer) and so overwhelmingly positive (a 90+% reduction in the chance of serious disease, in exchange for a vanishingly small risk). Public health messaging in the US was terrible, but US public health agencies were extremely cautious with the vaccines. If they hadn't cared about testing the vaccines, the vaccines could have been rolled out by mid-2020. After all, the vaccines were formulated all the way back in January 2020, pretty much as soon as the viral RNA sequence was published. I think it's sad that people have the impression that the vaccines were not thoroughly tested, because they were actually subjected to an extremely high level of scrutiny. They weren't approved until full-scale phase-3 trials with tens of thousands of participants had shown that the risk of severe side-effects was minuscule (i.e., as low as in other approved, safe vaccines). The vaccine saved on the order of a million lives in the US. It's one of the most unambiguously positive things developed by humankind. That's why the strident opposition is so difficult to understand - it points to something very wrong in society.

chiefalchemist 4y ago

> Trivial and harmless? First, there's history. Second, the POTUS himself - self proclaimed enemy of divisiveness - yapped "pandemic of the unvaccinated." Which was a lie. A lie for which he has yet to acknowledge, let alone apologize for. The point is, people with an appreciation for history, and a willingness to exert their God given rights were being manipulated and maligned. That's not cool. That's not unifying. To see it as trivial and harmless says more about you buying into the ruse than anything else. History is clear my friend...be careful what you wish for, especially when your government is making big promises that hinge on your convenience and someone else's loss of liberty.

scrollaway 4y ago
Not everybody on this website is American, you know.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- chiefalchemist 4y ago
  And that has what to do with my comment? And the comment it was replying directly to?
coinbasetwwa 4y ago
You hit the nail on the head. It’s sad that people can’t see past their views to see the world for what it is.
DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
There's a long history of vaccine requirements, including in the US. For example, NY state requires that children attending daycare or school be vaccinated against a range of pathogens. I don't know what you're envisioning happening with mandatory SARS-CoV-2 vaccination, or why you consider it a "ruse." A "ruse" for what, exactly? I don't think mandatory vaccination equals anyone's "loss of liberty." I don't think there's a right to not be vaccinated. It's a critical public health measure that brings huge benefits to society, and which imposes virtually no burden on the individual.