5 ms·

Which country?

miroljub 4y ago
From the description, I would assume Germany, since that's precisely what happens here. But I can also imagine Germany is not the only state that allows its companies to act like this.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- luckylion 4y ago
  Why would workers from Eastern Europe not have passports? "Eastern European" typically means EU-member states, with Ukraine being the exception even before the war (within reasonable distance, populous enough for recruiters to go to). EU-citizens don't need a residency permit, and they have access to the social system in Germany. They're often not informed about their rights and that should be improved, but "they end up on the streets because no passport" sounds like something that's not true for a significant number.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    This story doesn't pass the smell test. Appears OP is from the netherlands, not a friendly country towards east europe, but I still don't see how people can end up on the streets in a country where by law they have equal rights (or is very cheap to return to home countries, and sue the abusive employer).
    - haspok 4y ago
      Easy. Here are the steps to follow: 1. Don't speak any language other than your own, especially not the one spoken in the country you are planning to work in. 2. Get your work and accommodation organized by the same company or person, trust him when he says that you need to pay X amount upfront for the accommodation, but you will get it back eventually. 3. Give your passport to the organizing company or person, so you won't accidentally lose it (if you have a passport at all - moving within the EU does not require one). 4. Do not request a contract, or sign it without understanding what is in it (because it is not in a language you understand). 5. Be in such a desperate financial situation that you cannot just travel anytime you want, let alone find another accommodation. 6. Even if the circumstances are troubling (living in a small apartment with 10 other people, working and not being paid after a month etc), do not go to the police, partly because you don't speak the language, partly because you don't know what rights you have, partly because they can kick you out of your job and accommodation if you complain. 7. For younger girls the steps are a bit different, and much more evil. Let's not get into that. In a way, the EU being a single job market makes these kinds of things even easier - no real control of who enters a country, who lives where etc. In theory, you must register your change of address, social security etc. In practice, the system is easy to exploit.
      - yrgulation 4y ago
        To me it sounds like a colossal policing failure in that country; almost as if this type of exploitation is tolerated. Wondering why the eu never bothers solving it, instead of just blaming the victims.
  - School-Cotton 4y ago
    Ukraine isn’t the only eastern country that’s not in the EU. Belarus, Russia, Moldova, Turkey, and most of the former Yugoslavia (all but Croatia and Slovenia) are also in that group. Whether Turkey or Russia count as “Eastern Europe” is I suppose debatable, but the other examples are unambiguous.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      Sure, but it's much easier to enter Germany from Ukraine (and currently also Moldova and Belarus, but they have a smaller population), as you won't need a visa and special work-permit, as you would from Russia, Serbia or Turkey, so it's more common to have Ukrainians working in Germany than Russians. EU-citizens have an easier time still, so they make up the lion's share. The "employer provides accommodation" is common in farming (seasonal work) and some factories, e.g. industrial slaughterhouses are well known for that kind of setup, and for bad conditions.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    > and they have access to the social system in Germany This is with a huge asterisk. Workers (EU or otherwise) moving to Germany or any other country for that matter, have access to welfare only once they've contributed enough to the system, not right away. Being highly vulnerable, having small kids or health issues may entitle you to some benefits right away, but welfare/unemployment benefits have a mandatory period of contributions to the system before you can claim them. Sure, there are system savvy people, locals and immigrants alike, that have found loopholes and ways to game the system, turning welfare into a taxpayer-funded lifestyle, which is the topic of many heated political debates on the future of the socialist welfare safety system, as too many people rely on it and not enough contribute.
- kuschkufan 4y ago
  What precisely is happening in Germany? Please provide sources for your claims, otherwise it's hard to take them serious.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >What precisely is happening in Germany? German industries in low margin businesses (meat, agriculture, harvesting, construction work, hospitality, etc.) are dependent on exploiting low wage migrant labor, mostly form Eastern Europe (why do you think food prices are so low in Germany, and why do you think the country has the most liberal open borders migration policy in Europe?). The German government and state institutions turn a blind eye to migrant exploitation, because otherwise supermarket prices would explode and some German exports would no longer be competitive on price. For example, when you see super cheap bananas or whatever food in the supermarkets, that have to be grown, harvested and shipped and wages paid along the supply chain, how do you think such low prices are possible? Easy, people and the environment are usually exploited along the way, as supermarket chains know consumers are very price sensitive so the entire industry price-competes themselves downward into oblivion thriving on exploitation. To be clear, this isn't an isolated issue to Germany alone, but applies to many wealthy countries. >Please provide sources for your claims, otherwise it's hard to take them serious. As this exploitation has been happening for a while, there are countless stories and articles about this in German media, especially DW and other NGOs. They're so well documented, they're impossible to miss, so I'm a bit surprised by your skepticism, but here you go: Romanian workers reveal dire conditions at slaughterhouses [1] A story about seasonal workers, exploitation and vulnerability [2] Precarious Posted Migration: The Case of Romanian Construction and Meat-Industry Workers in Germany [3] [1] https://www.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-54033187 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-540... [2] https://www.suedwind.at/fileadmin/user_upload/suedwind/50_Handeln/Our_food_our_future/Mai_Bine_OFOF_Article_O_story_of_seasonal_workers__exploitation_and_vulnerability-2.pdf https://www.suedwind.at/fileadmin/user_upload/suedwind/50_Ha... [3] http://www.ceemr.uw.edu.pl/sites/default/files/Voivozeanu_Precarious_Posted_Migration_0.pdf http://www.ceemr.uw.edu.pl/sites/default/files/Voivozeanu_Pr...

Which country?

From the description, I would assume Germany, since that's precisely what happens here. But I can also imagine Germany is not the only state that allows its companies to act like this.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
luckylion 4y ago
Why would workers from Eastern Europe not have passports? "Eastern European" typically means EU-member states, with Ukraine being the exception even before the war (within reasonable distance, populous enough for recruiters to go to). EU-citizens don't need a residency permit, and they have access to the social system in Germany. They're often not informed about their rights and that should be improved, but "they end up on the streets because no passport" sounds like something that's not true for a significant number.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- yrgulation 4y ago
  This story doesn't pass the smell test. Appears OP is from the netherlands, not a friendly country towards east europe, but I still don't see how people can end up on the streets in a country where by law they have equal rights (or is very cheap to return to home countries, and sue the abusive employer).
  - haspok 4y ago
    Easy. Here are the steps to follow: 1. Don't speak any language other than your own, especially not the one spoken in the country you are planning to work in. 2. Get your work and accommodation organized by the same company or person, trust him when he says that you need to pay X amount upfront for the accommodation, but you will get it back eventually. 3. Give your passport to the organizing company or person, so you won't accidentally lose it (if you have a passport at all - moving within the EU does not require one). 4. Do not request a contract, or sign it without understanding what is in it (because it is not in a language you understand). 5. Be in such a desperate financial situation that you cannot just travel anytime you want, let alone find another accommodation. 6. Even if the circumstances are troubling (living in a small apartment with 10 other people, working and not being paid after a month etc), do not go to the police, partly because you don't speak the language, partly because you don't know what rights you have, partly because they can kick you out of your job and accommodation if you complain. 7. For younger girls the steps are a bit different, and much more evil. Let's not get into that. In a way, the EU being a single job market makes these kinds of things even easier - no real control of who enters a country, who lives where etc. In theory, you must register your change of address, social security etc. In practice, the system is easy to exploit.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      To me it sounds like a colossal policing failure in that country; almost as if this type of exploitation is tolerated. Wondering why the eu never bothers solving it, instead of just blaming the victims.
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  Ukraine isn’t the only eastern country that’s not in the EU. Belarus, Russia, Moldova, Turkey, and most of the former Yugoslavia (all but Croatia and Slovenia) are also in that group. Whether Turkey or Russia count as “Eastern Europe” is I suppose debatable, but the other examples are unambiguous.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    Sure, but it's much easier to enter Germany from Ukraine (and currently also Moldova and Belarus, but they have a smaller population), as you won't need a visa and special work-permit, as you would from Russia, Serbia or Turkey, so it's more common to have Ukrainians working in Germany than Russians. EU-citizens have an easier time still, so they make up the lion's share. The "employer provides accommodation" is common in farming (seasonal work) and some factories, e.g. industrial slaughterhouses are well known for that kind of setup, and for bad conditions.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  > and they have access to the social system in Germany This is with a huge asterisk. Workers (EU or otherwise) moving to Germany or any other country for that matter, have access to welfare only once they've contributed enough to the system, not right away. Being highly vulnerable, having small kids or health issues may entitle you to some benefits right away, but welfare/unemployment benefits have a mandatory period of contributions to the system before you can claim them. Sure, there are system savvy people, locals and immigrants alike, that have found loopholes and ways to game the system, turning welfare into a taxpayer-funded lifestyle, which is the topic of many heated political debates on the future of the socialist welfare safety system, as too many people rely on it and not enough contribute.
kuschkufan 4y ago
What precisely is happening in Germany? Please provide sources for your claims, otherwise it's hard to take them serious.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >What precisely is happening in Germany? German industries in low margin businesses (meat, agriculture, harvesting, construction work, hospitality, etc.) are dependent on exploiting low wage migrant labor, mostly form Eastern Europe (why do you think food prices are so low in Germany, and why do you think the country has the most liberal open borders migration policy in Europe?). The German government and state institutions turn a blind eye to migrant exploitation, because otherwise supermarket prices would explode and some German exports would no longer be competitive on price. For example, when you see super cheap bananas or whatever food in the supermarkets, that have to be grown, harvested and shipped and wages paid along the supply chain, how do you think such low prices are possible? Easy, people and the environment are usually exploited along the way, as supermarket chains know consumers are very price sensitive so the entire industry price-competes themselves downward into oblivion thriving on exploitation. To be clear, this isn't an isolated issue to Germany alone, but applies to many wealthy countries. >Please provide sources for your claims, otherwise it's hard to take them serious. As this exploitation has been happening for a while, there are countless stories and articles about this in German media, especially DW and other NGOs. They're so well documented, they're impossible to miss, so I'm a bit surprised by your skepticism, but here you go: Romanian workers reveal dire conditions at slaughterhouses [1] A story about seasonal workers, exploitation and vulnerability [2] Precarious Posted Migration: The Case of Romanian Construction and Meat-Industry Workers in Germany [3] [1] https://www.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-54033187 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-540... [2] https://www.suedwind.at/fileadmin/user_upload/suedwind/50_Handeln/Our_food_our_future/Mai_Bine_OFOF_Article_O_story_of_seasonal_workers__exploitation_and_vulnerability-2.pdf https://www.suedwind.at/fileadmin/user_upload/suedwind/50_Ha... [3] http://www.ceemr.uw.edu.pl/sites/default/files/Voivozeanu_Precarious_Posted_Migration_0.pdf http://www.ceemr.uw.edu.pl/sites/default/files/Voivozeanu_Pr...