6 ms·

This happens a lot in my country. Eastern Europeans on temporary contracts and company housing (and we use the word house very liberally it is usually just a be

This happens a lot in my country. Eastern Europeans on temporary contracts and company housing (and we use the word house very liberally it is usually just a bed) end up on the streets when fired. They don't get help from the government because no passport. The socialist welfare state cannot be extended to foreigners or it would run out of € and the temp agencies take no responsibility.

FeepingCreature 4y ago
If you pay for somebody to relocate to you, you should be legally required to pay for them to relocate back as well. This should have broad political appeal for the obvious reasons.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  It should be ideally, but I don't know a country where that is. Relocation between EU countries has no barriers and is relatively common but is expected to be on your own dime. Sure, for skilled professions in demand sometimes you get a relocation bonus to sweeten the deal and soften the financial blow, but there's always the risk that you get laid off during the probation period, which is something you need to take into consideration if you have to uproot your entire family to move to another country for a new job. Best way is to find a cheap place to rent and live below your means for a while until you feel comfortable and stable in your new country/job and not blow all your money on arrival. I've seen this happen a lot. Guy sells everything he has to move family to a new country for a new dream job, then spending big money on renting a nice new house for his family, buying a new car and tons of new stuff for the house and the kids, and a few weeks/months down the line he doesn't pass probation or the company changes course and lays him off, or he realizes the job or city is not what he thought and wishes to leave. And since he hasn't been contributing to the social services for long enough he's not entitled to any welfare/assistance from the state. It happens more often than you think. The good thing is that in EU your residence permit is not tied to an employer so if you get let go, you can still stay and find another job with relative ease, but no country or company that I'm aware of here pays for your relocation if things don't work out for you. That's why having some savings and living below your means for a while is of major importance when you move cities/countries.
  - unmole 4y ago
    > It should be but I don't know a country where that is Singapore for certain low paid jobs.
- irae 4y ago
  I would agree ethically, but unfortunately this would open a hornets nest of small fraud and abuse. On a way smaller scale, here in Brazil, every single rule that was made to protect "too much" the employee is largely exploited and breaks the system. Don't get me wrong. The case of working only 2 days after the move is an absolute nightmare. But it is the exception that needs to be dealt with, not the reason for a rule that is hard to enforce and easy to fraud.
perfecthjrjth 4y ago
Which country?
- miroljub 4y ago
  From the description, I would assume Germany, since that's precisely what happens here. But I can also imagine Germany is not the only state that allows its companies to act like this.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - luckylion 4y ago
    Why would workers from Eastern Europe not have passports? "Eastern European" typically means EU-member states, with Ukraine being the exception even before the war (within reasonable distance, populous enough for recruiters to go to). EU-citizens don't need a residency permit, and they have access to the social system in Germany. They're often not informed about their rights and that should be improved, but "they end up on the streets because no passport" sounds like something that's not true for a significant number.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      This story doesn't pass the smell test. Appears OP is from the netherlands, not a friendly country towards east europe, but I still don't see how people can end up on the streets in a country where by law they have equal rights (or is very cheap to return to home countries, and sue the abusive employer).
      - haspok 4y ago
        Easy. Here are the steps to follow: 1. Don't speak any language other than your own, especially not the one spoken in the country you are planning to work in. 2. Get your work and accommodation organized by the same company or person, trust him when he says that you need to pay X amount upfront for the accommodation, but you will get it back eventually. 3. Give your passport to the organizing company or person, so you won't accidentally lose it (if you have a passport at all - moving within the EU does not require one). 4. Do not request a contract, or sign it without understanding what is in it (because it is not in a language you understand). 5. Be in such a desperate financial situation that you cannot just travel anytime you want, let alone find another accommodation. 6. Even if the circumstances are troubling (living in a small apartment with 10 other people, working and not being paid after a month etc), do not go to the police, partly because you don't speak the language, partly because you don't know what rights you have, partly because they can kick you out of your job and accommodation if you complain. 7. For younger girls the steps are a bit different, and much more evil. Let's not get into that. In a way, the EU being a single job market makes these kinds of things even easier - no real control of who enters a country, who lives where etc. In theory, you must register your change of address, social security etc. In practice, the system is easy to exploit.
jve 4y ago
Hello from Eastern Europe. We must possess passport/id card if at least 15 yrs old whether travelling or not. So staying at some EU country without passport I suspect is illegal, let alone who brings such people to work? Shady. But people who officially work abroad... yeah, not the best conditions for many. As usual, people think grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
bluedino 4y ago
>> The socialist welfare state cannot be extended to foreigners or it would run out of € Here's what's odd about the USA. I know people from India and Canada, who were here and their visa expired, and they couldn't get a job, so they have to leave. I also know people from Mexico, who are here illegally/undocumented/whatever, and they don't leave. They stay for years. Because you don't already have an expired visa, you can file taxes (and get a refund!), open a bank account, get a driver's license, etc. But if you were in the process of coming here legally, they have your number and you're done. I mean, they have to leave just like the first example. But they don't. Zero fucking sense.

FeepingCreature 4y ago

If you pay for somebody to relocate to you, you should be legally required to pay for them to relocate back as well. This should have broad political appeal for the obvious reasons.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
It should be ideally, but I don't know a country where that is. Relocation between EU countries has no barriers and is relatively common but is expected to be on your own dime. Sure, for skilled professions in demand sometimes you get a relocation bonus to sweeten the deal and soften the financial blow, but there's always the risk that you get laid off during the probation period, which is something you need to take into consideration if you have to uproot your entire family to move to another country for a new job. Best way is to find a cheap place to rent and live below your means for a while until you feel comfortable and stable in your new country/job and not blow all your money on arrival. I've seen this happen a lot. Guy sells everything he has to move family to a new country for a new dream job, then spending big money on renting a nice new house for his family, buying a new car and tons of new stuff for the house and the kids, and a few weeks/months down the line he doesn't pass probation or the company changes course and lays him off, or he realizes the job or city is not what he thought and wishes to leave. And since he hasn't been contributing to the social services for long enough he's not entitled to any welfare/assistance from the state. It happens more often than you think. The good thing is that in EU your residence permit is not tied to an employer so if you get let go, you can still stay and find another job with relative ease, but no country or company that I'm aware of here pays for your relocation if things don't work out for you. That's why having some savings and living below your means for a while is of major importance when you move cities/countries.
- unmole 4y ago
  > It should be but I don't know a country where that is Singapore for certain low paid jobs.
irae 4y ago
I would agree ethically, but unfortunately this would open a hornets nest of small fraud and abuse. On a way smaller scale, here in Brazil, every single rule that was made to protect "too much" the employee is largely exploited and breaks the system. Don't get me wrong. The case of working only 2 days after the move is an absolute nightmare. But it is the exception that needs to be dealt with, not the reason for a rule that is hard to enforce and easy to fraud.

perfecthjrjth 4y ago

Which country?

miroljub 4y ago
From the description, I would assume Germany, since that's precisely what happens here. But I can also imagine Germany is not the only state that allows its companies to act like this.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- luckylion 4y ago
  Why would workers from Eastern Europe not have passports? "Eastern European" typically means EU-member states, with Ukraine being the exception even before the war (within reasonable distance, populous enough for recruiters to go to). EU-citizens don't need a residency permit, and they have access to the social system in Germany. They're often not informed about their rights and that should be improved, but "they end up on the streets because no passport" sounds like something that's not true for a significant number.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    This story doesn't pass the smell test. Appears OP is from the netherlands, not a friendly country towards east europe, but I still don't see how people can end up on the streets in a country where by law they have equal rights (or is very cheap to return to home countries, and sue the abusive employer).
    - haspok 4y ago
      Easy. Here are the steps to follow: 1. Don't speak any language other than your own, especially not the one spoken in the country you are planning to work in. 2. Get your work and accommodation organized by the same company or person, trust him when he says that you need to pay X amount upfront for the accommodation, but you will get it back eventually. 3. Give your passport to the organizing company or person, so you won't accidentally lose it (if you have a passport at all - moving within the EU does not require one). 4. Do not request a contract, or sign it without understanding what is in it (because it is not in a language you understand). 5. Be in such a desperate financial situation that you cannot just travel anytime you want, let alone find another accommodation. 6. Even if the circumstances are troubling (living in a small apartment with 10 other people, working and not being paid after a month etc), do not go to the police, partly because you don't speak the language, partly because you don't know what rights you have, partly because they can kick you out of your job and accommodation if you complain. 7. For younger girls the steps are a bit different, and much more evil. Let's not get into that. In a way, the EU being a single job market makes these kinds of things even easier - no real control of who enters a country, who lives where etc. In theory, you must register your change of address, social security etc. In practice, the system is easy to exploit.

jve 4y ago

Hello from Eastern Europe. We must possess passport/id card if at least 15 yrs old whether travelling or not. So staying at some EU country without passport I suspect is illegal, let alone who brings such people to work? Shady. But people who officially work abroad... yeah, not the best conditions for many. As usual, people think grass is greener on the other side of the fence.

bluedino 4y ago

>> The socialist welfare state cannot be extended to foreigners or it would run out of € Here's what's odd about the USA. I know people from India and Canada, who were here and their visa expired, and they couldn't get a job, so they have to leave. I also know people from Mexico, who are here illegally/undocumented/whatever, and they don't leave. They stay for years. Because you don't already have an expired visa, you can file taxes (and get a refund!), open a bank account, get a driver's license, etc. But if you were in the process of coming here legally, they have your number and you're done. I mean, they have to leave just like the first example. But they don't. Zero fucking sense.