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The problem with electric cars is that they're still cars. Cars are inherently way less efficient than trains, or even buses. In practice, trains take less than

The problem with electric cars is that they're still cars. Cars are inherently way less efficient than trains, or even buses. In practice, trains take less than 1/7th the power that cars do to transport passengers - and that's before we get into the land-subsidies (parking, giant roads) that cars need in order to be financially competitive. But even when cars are necessary, they tend to be massively overengineered - does every car need to be 1) a five-seater, 2) 500KM range (300mile range), and 3) capable of driving at 110KM/hr (70miles/hr)? Every one of those requirements basically doubles the cost and halves the efficiency. >First came the long tail pipe argument, I think even the most ardent of naysayers have realised that that one is bullshit. I wish. Obviously it is bullshit, but it's a goddamn zombie argument that just won't die.

devilsbabe 4y ago
I've never heard of this. What's the long tail pipe argument? edit: I see. I definitely have heard this, just not called as such https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe
VBprogrammer 4y ago
Yes, I get it. But on the other hand I tend to think that the reality of getting people to use public transport and cycling en masse is comically naive. You can see how defensive people get about the marginal adjustments that swapping from a ICE to an electric car would mean. Basically just that journeys of several hundred miles become slightly more painful, oh and if we're being fussy it's not clear how towing would work with an electric car yet (the impact on range rather than their ability to do it is the issue). > But even when cars are necessary, they tend to be massively overengineered - does every car need to be 1) a five-seater, 2) 500KM range (300mile range), and 3) capable of driving at 110KM/hr (70miles/hr)? I'm with you on this but it's slightly worse than you say. Most of the popular electric cars are large sedan / SUV sized rather than small city cars and hatchbacks. Cars like the VW E-up and the Honda E are exceptions. Admittedly they still have 4/5 seats but the market demand is a problem for anything less (people are irrationally attached to the ability to transport 4+ people, even if they never actually do it).
ajuc 4y ago
Well I agree about public transport (and I happen to live in a country with decent public transport - I do less than 3000 km per year so buying EV makes no sense, I'm still driving a Fiat Punto made in 1995 and if not for my wife sentiment for the car we should probably just sell it and rent when needed ;) ). When I was commuting 180km every day for a few months (lived in Lublin, worked in Warsaw temporarily) I realized I'm making the whole route using electricity (a trolley in Lublin, a train between the cities, a tram in Warsaw). And I was reading a book the whole time. It's the self-drivining car dream made true with 19th century technology :) But US is fucked up culturally and infrastructurally when it comes to cars so the next best thing is making EVs cool.

devilsbabe 4y ago

I've never heard of this. What's the long tail pipe argument? edit: I see. I definitely have heard this, just not called as such https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_long_tailpipe

VBprogrammer 4y ago

Yes, I get it. But on the other hand I tend to think that the reality of getting people to use public transport and cycling en masse is comically naive. You can see how defensive people get about the marginal adjustments that swapping from a ICE to an electric car would mean. Basically just that journeys of several hundred miles become slightly more painful, oh and if we're being fussy it's not clear how towing would work with an electric car yet (the impact on range rather than their ability to do it is the issue). > But even when cars are necessary, they tend to be massively overengineered - does every car need to be 1) a five-seater, 2) 500KM range (300mile range), and 3) capable of driving at 110KM/hr (70miles/hr)? I'm with you on this but it's slightly worse than you say. Most of the popular electric cars are large sedan / SUV sized rather than small city cars and hatchbacks. Cars like the VW E-up and the Honda E are exceptions. Admittedly they still have 4/5 seats but the market demand is a problem for anything less (people are irrationally attached to the ability to transport 4+ people, even if they never actually do it).

ajuc 4y ago

Well I agree about public transport (and I happen to live in a country with decent public transport - I do less than 3000 km per year so buying EV makes no sense, I'm still driving a Fiat Punto made in 1995 and if not for my wife sentiment for the car we should probably just sell it and rent when needed ;) ). When I was commuting 180km every day for a few months (lived in Lublin, worked in Warsaw temporarily) I realized I'm making the whole route using electricity (a trolley in Lublin, a train between the cities, a tram in Warsaw). And I was reading a book the whole time. It's the self-drivining car dream made true with 19th century technology :) But US is fucked up culturally and infrastructurally when it comes to cars so the next best thing is making EVs cool.