5 ms·

I wish people knew the original meaning of "begging the question". Now the people routinely use a different meaning, our language is unnecessarily muddier.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
GolDDranks 4y ago
To spread awareness of the original meaning: (From Wikipedia) To "beg the question" (also called petitio principii) is to attempt to support a claim with a premise that itself restates or presupposes the claim.[6] It is an attempt to prove a proposition while simultaneously taking the proposition for granted. When the fallacy involves only a single variable, it is sometimes called a hysteron proteron[7][8][9] (Greek for "later earlier"), a rhetorical device, as in the statement: "Opium induces sleep because it has a soporific quality."[10]
- kltrank 4y ago
  Wikipedia marks the popular use "invites the question" as vernacular. This seems wrong: The Oxford dictionary lists a) the original meaning and b) "invites the question", and b) is not marked as vernacular.
SantalBlush 4y ago
It's really not muddier with this use of the phrase; some people make a show about being bothered by it so they can demonstrate that they knew the original meaning. Based on the context, you know exactly which meaning of the phrase is intended here, and it's disengenuous to pretend otherwise. The differences in context between the two meanings make this a non-problem.
- smegsicle 4y ago
  rather than this usage being unclear, i think the muddiness is more about the original concept becoming more difficult to reference- it has a name, but that name now refers to a much less subtle concept
  - goolulusaurs 4y ago
    "assuming the conclusion" is a much better way to refer to the original concept, IMO.
  - SantalBlush 4y ago
    I get it, it's like when someone mentions a slippery slope: are they talking about a fallacy, or a surface I can slide down?
    - Cpoll 4y ago
      > Based on the context Personally speaking, it's not always easy to tell which "begging the question" someone means from context. I often have to stop and ask "hold on, do they mean the premise assumes the conclusion?" (And all the worse for me if they just mean "brings up the question", because I'll spend a minute making sure I'm not just missing the fallacy). In that sense, it's not quite the same as "slippery slope," which doesn't get used literally much anyway.
radarsat1 4y ago
It's just a common mistake. "Raises the question" would have been the appropriate idiom. In any case no harm no foul.
- partdavid 4y ago
  Not in itself. But when GP wishes that more people knew the meaning of the set phrase "begging the question", there's an underlying desire (which I share) that more people be familiar with elementary parts of logic and debate. In that sense I also wish more people knew what "No true Scotsman" or"non sequitur" mean. Including, I'm sure, myself, in all my areas of ignorance.
im3w1l 4y ago
The words "begging" "the" "question" has almost nothing to do with what the full expression means, making it unnecessarily confusing. "circular argument" is much clearer.
- bruce343434 4y ago
  A circular argument begs the question "oh, does it?"
usgroup 4y ago
"Begging the question" to someone with no sense of its etymology just sounds like it should mean "necessitates the asking of a question" or "makes clear a question" as opposed to "attempting to prove something whilst taking its truth for granted". I'd imagine that we come to know the meaning of >99% of words and expressions through usage, so it feels like a fairly expected -- and reasonable, yet wrong -- outcome.
thyrsus 4y ago
I think the form "beggars the question", i.e., left the question in poverty, unanswered, is somewhat less misinterpretable. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

GolDDranks 4y ago

To spread awareness of the original meaning: (From Wikipedia) To "beg the question" (also called petitio principii) is to attempt to support a claim with a premise that itself restates or presupposes the claim.[6] It is an attempt to prove a proposition while simultaneously taking the proposition for granted. When the fallacy involves only a single variable, it is sometimes called a hysteron proteron[7][8][9] (Greek for "later earlier"), a rhetorical device, as in the statement: "Opium induces sleep because it has a soporific quality."[10]

kltrank 4y ago
Wikipedia marks the popular use "invites the question" as vernacular. This seems wrong: The Oxford dictionary lists a) the original meaning and b) "invites the question", and b) is not marked as vernacular.

SantalBlush 4y ago

It's really not muddier with this use of the phrase; some people make a show about being bothered by it so they can demonstrate that they knew the original meaning. Based on the context, you know exactly which meaning of the phrase is intended here, and it's disengenuous to pretend otherwise. The differences in context between the two meanings make this a non-problem.

smegsicle 4y ago
rather than this usage being unclear, i think the muddiness is more about the original concept becoming more difficult to reference- it has a name, but that name now refers to a much less subtle concept
- goolulusaurs 4y ago
  "assuming the conclusion" is a much better way to refer to the original concept, IMO.
- SantalBlush 4y ago
  I get it, it's like when someone mentions a slippery slope: are they talking about a fallacy, or a surface I can slide down?
  - Cpoll 4y ago
    > Based on the context Personally speaking, it's not always easy to tell which "begging the question" someone means from context. I often have to stop and ask "hold on, do they mean the premise assumes the conclusion?" (And all the worse for me if they just mean "brings up the question", because I'll spend a minute making sure I'm not just missing the fallacy). In that sense, it's not quite the same as "slippery slope," which doesn't get used literally much anyway.

radarsat1 4y ago

It's just a common mistake. "Raises the question" would have been the appropriate idiom. In any case no harm no foul.

partdavid 4y ago
Not in itself. But when GP wishes that more people knew the meaning of the set phrase "begging the question", there's an underlying desire (which I share) that more people be familiar with elementary parts of logic and debate. In that sense I also wish more people knew what "No true Scotsman" or"non sequitur" mean. Including, I'm sure, myself, in all my areas of ignorance.

im3w1l 4y ago

The words "begging" "the" "question" has almost nothing to do with what the full expression means, making it unnecessarily confusing. "circular argument" is much clearer.

bruce343434 4y ago
A circular argument begs the question "oh, does it?"

usgroup 4y ago

"Begging the question" to someone with no sense of its etymology just sounds like it should mean "necessitates the asking of a question" or "makes clear a question" as opposed to "attempting to prove something whilst taking its truth for granted". I'd imagine that we come to know the meaning of >99% of words and expressions through usage, so it feels like a fairly expected -- and reasonable, yet wrong -- outcome.

thyrsus 4y ago

I think the form "beggars the question", i.e., left the question in poverty, unanswered, is somewhat less misinterpretable. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question