4 ms·

10c

by rdtwo 4y ago

10c

lotsofpulp 4y ago
And heating with a natural gas furnace is still far cheaper. Obviously excluding costs of externalities not included in price of natural gas, but they are also not included in the electricity prices. Not that they are easily knowable in the first place.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  I used this calculator [1] to compare based on the current price of utility natural gas and an 11 cent/kWh electric cost. The electric heat pump was significantly cheaper, to the tune of hundreds of dollars per year. [1] https://www.pickhvac.com/hvac/furnace-vs-heat-pump-cost/ https://www.pickhvac.com/hvac/furnace-vs-heat-pump-cost/
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    It has been a few years since I did the calculations for my place, but if I put in my natural gas price ($1.05/therm), it is coming out near even. At which point, the initial costs and maintenance costs would be a factor, and back then, a heat pump with a capacity comparable to a gas furnace was much more expensive. So maybe the parameters have changed, but I also like that my gas furnace can be counted on at any temperature, plus it is not subject to electricity outages. Perhaps I would do both heat pump and gas furnace going toward, the furnace as backup for the heat pump and get the best of both worlds.
    - LarsAlereon 4y ago
      Another way of looking at that up-front cost is that it's basically an extra $100 when you install an air conditioning system, or that you get an air conditioning system for free along with your heating system. This is very relevant in Washington where we historically didn't need AC but with hotter summers it's starting to become a requirement for comfort. So there are lots of houses that have never had AC that need a system installed.
    - mturmon 4y ago
      > gas furnace … is not subject to electricity outages But isn’t the air-handling fan and perhaps the ignition unit reliant on electricity?
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        Yes, but I assume those consume sufficiently less power such that they can be operated via a home generator.
        hedora 4y ago
        Heat pumps can also be run by generators. Typical coefficients of power are above 4, and generators can be in the 30-50% efficient range, so end to end, it's likely you burn less gas via the generator + heatpump route than via the direct heating route.
    - Rebelgecko 4y ago
      What kind of gas furnace works safely without electricity? Is that something you had to go out of your way to get?
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        Sorry, I meant that can work for a somewhat decent amount of time on a reasonably sized generator, since the most power intensive part (heating) will not come from electricity.
  - legitster 4y ago
    11c is only available in certain markets at off peak hours. Our price in WA has never been that low.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      I just looked through the last 3 years, and I was charged $0.0816 per kWh every month, and an additional $12 per month for “basic service”. With the $12/month, the per kWh price was $0.098 at most.

10c

by rdtwo 4y ago

10c

And heating with a natural gas furnace is still far cheaper. Obviously excluding costs of externalities not included in price of natural gas, but they are also not included in the electricity prices. Not that they are easily knowable in the first place.

matthewdgreen 4y ago
I used this calculator [1] to compare based on the current price of utility natural gas and an 11 cent/kWh electric cost. The electric heat pump was significantly cheaper, to the tune of hundreds of dollars per year. [1] https://www.pickhvac.com/hvac/furnace-vs-heat-pump-cost/ https://www.pickhvac.com/hvac/furnace-vs-heat-pump-cost/
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  It has been a few years since I did the calculations for my place, but if I put in my natural gas price ($1.05/therm), it is coming out near even. At which point, the initial costs and maintenance costs would be a factor, and back then, a heat pump with a capacity comparable to a gas furnace was much more expensive. So maybe the parameters have changed, but I also like that my gas furnace can be counted on at any temperature, plus it is not subject to electricity outages. Perhaps I would do both heat pump and gas furnace going toward, the furnace as backup for the heat pump and get the best of both worlds.
  - LarsAlereon 4y ago
    Another way of looking at that up-front cost is that it's basically an extra $100 when you install an air conditioning system, or that you get an air conditioning system for free along with your heating system. This is very relevant in Washington where we historically didn't need AC but with hotter summers it's starting to become a requirement for comfort. So there are lots of houses that have never had AC that need a system installed.
  - mturmon 4y ago
    > gas furnace … is not subject to electricity outages But isn’t the air-handling fan and perhaps the ignition unit reliant on electricity?
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      Yes, but I assume those consume sufficiently less power such that they can be operated via a home generator.
      - hedora 4y ago
        Heat pumps can also be run by generators. Typical coefficients of power are above 4, and generators can be in the 30-50% efficient range, so end to end, it's likely you burn less gas via the generator + heatpump route than via the direct heating route.
  - Rebelgecko 4y ago
    What kind of gas furnace works safely without electricity? Is that something you had to go out of your way to get?
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      Sorry, I meant that can work for a somewhat decent amount of time on a reasonably sized generator, since the most power intensive part (heating) will not come from electricity.
- legitster 4y ago
  11c is only available in certain markets at off peak hours. Our price in WA has never been that low.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    I just looked through the last 3 years, and I was charged $0.0816 per kWh every month, and an additional $12 per month for “basic service”. With the $12/month, the per kWh price was $0.098 at most.