8 ms·

I wish I had time and energy for projects like this. Like the olden days. How do you keep this curiosity alive into adulthood?

PragmaticPulp 4y ago
I know several people who accomplish great things in their spare time. The common theme is that those projects are their entertainment. They get off work and can't wait to go work on their projects. They go to bed on Friday night excited to have time on the weekend to work on their stuff. On the other end of the spectrum, I've mentored college grads for a while who would always complain that they never had time to do anything. I'd often ask them to open up the screen time report on their phone and they'd be shocked to discover they were spending 4 hours per day on Reddit or Netflix or something. You have to choose to make things a priority. It's fine if you just want to relax in your spare time, of course, but the key is to be deliberate about those choices rather than letting the flow of entertainment media carry you away.
- hugocbp 4y ago
  I think this is key. If you see it as another project, and then you see other things as entertainment and the things you do to relax, it feels like there isn't enough time. I always envy those people that find true entertainment and enjoyment in active activities like this, instead of just passive entertainment to "rest".
- beachy 4y ago
  I'm not big on motivational but this one from Arnold Schwarzenegger resonated with me and still does. You have so many hours in the day, it's what you use them for that makes a difference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bumPyvzCyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bumPyvzCyo
  - Cerium 4y ago
    Along the same vein there is that concept that there is no such thing as being "too busy". Anytime you want to say it, you can instead replace "I'm too busy" with "It is not a priority".
    - ackbar03 4y ago
      this is a good tip. I'll keep that in mind
- j45 4y ago
  Create > consume always
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
  How do these people have the energy for full time jobs, hobbies, and a family? One of those at 100% for 6-8 hours and I’ma zombie.
  - thatguy0900 4y ago
    Some people are just far more driven than others, is the reality. Personally I couldn't spend 8 hours at work then come home and work on a hobby for 4 hours every day either.
    - ajdegol 4y ago
      Work doesn’t have to tax the sprit so greatly; there is a way to work that gives you energy.
      - Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
        Care to share all the jobs you’ve had? I suspect you’re speaking from a position of immense privilege but want to give you the benefit of the doubt.
        ajdegol 4y ago
        Quite the opposite. There have been moments, when the mission is right, and you are aligned with purpose. You see it in glimpses outside of "jobs" (note I said "work" not jobs).
        Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
        So how do you survive if not by working for a living as the vast majority of humans must?
  - elteto 4y ago
    If you have a "typical" family with two young children (say <10 years old) the reality is that you would be sacrificing your time with them to spend on your hobbies. Each day only has 24 hours and this applies for _everybody_. Assume your kids are going to school and the parents go to work. Then the only time when everyone converges at home is ~4 to 5 hours between 4 and 9pm. This is the time slot when you have dinner together, bathe, do homework, go to the playground, do sports, do house chores, go grocery shopping, etc. By the time you are done putting them to bed you are exhausted and there's still house chores to do for the adults, tidying up for the next day, preparing school activities, etc. And you have not been able to spend quality time with your partner yet. This is just reality. You can't get around it. You may me able to squeeze extra hours from here or there, such as by not sleeping 8hrs, but most people can't do that consistently. Therefore, if you are in the above situation then it's incredibly difficult to spend time on hobbies, no matter how motivated you are, because it is a question of time, not motivation. So don't feel bad if you prioritize spending time with your children for now because this time won't ever come back. You can always start a new hobby but you can't always take your child to the playground. As they grow older you might be able to align your interests with them and spend quality time together, but even then you have to align yourself more to what they want than viceversa. You won't be modding a Starlink terminal with your child and have him remain interested and engaged the whole time. But together you might build a cool world in Minecraft or whatever. Spend your time wisely! It doesn't come back.
- causi 4y ago
  It's so easy to get trapped in a local minima when with just a little effort you can have a much better time. I got so much happier when I made a conscious effort to play videogames instead of doomscrolling.
- teux 4y ago
  The screentime report was jarring for me as well. It sounds silly, but I used the parental control on my iphone to turn it «dumb». I can still use the internet, but blocked most social media sites and apps, reddit/etc. My good friend has the passcode. If I need them I can use my laptop/desktop, but it’s not as gratifying and right there. My screentime dropped by 4-5 hours per day, it’s insane. Now I get bored occasionally and (unintentionally) frustrated my phone can’t solve that, but I do read more, and work on more hobbies.
anyfactor 4y ago
I think hardware hacking is the coolest stuff ever. That is why we have so many people buying Raspberry Pi-s. I guess the best way to keep your curiosity after X years of age is to start with a really challenging project that you know has steps of micro-success. Also, find a motivating community where you can chill, rant or discuss things with. That's why I am here, you are here. You need to have some level of familiarity with the domain of knowledge so, you know what you can achieve in what amount of time. There needs to be the idea of challenge, definite success and somewhat familiarity involved. My example: I like the old school WSB community. If you know, the tesla-short era. So, I attempted to build tooling that they will enjoy, and I will have fun discussing. My checklist of accomplishments was things I knew can be completed in a few hours. The progressive dopamine hits kept me focused. I was doing great. Why did I fail? Community itself become not the same. Fun discussions were harder to find. Market kept going up, meaning tools that I made is worthless because anything I didn't make sense because stonks go up. A Complex JavaScript project felt harder to write than I anticipated. So again, community, challenge and knowing your limits. If you are looking for hardware hacking motivation, these two videos blew my mind. Joe Grand, crypto wallet hacking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT9y-KQbqi4&t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT9y-KQbqi4&t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icBD5PiyoyI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icBD5PiyoyI This channel is also good, but it is a bit wacky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icBD5PiyoyI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icBD5PiyoyI Edit: Also validation. When WSB got extremely popular, and it was being spammed. Subreddit was flooded with spam and mods removed posts aggressively. It wasn't the place to show, "look what I made". Not blaming the mods, I just didn't belong anymore. If you can achieve validation by yourself internally, that is incredible. But the average human needs other people to say, "Good job :)" Finding a way to get validation from your projects is fantastic, a friendly community and likes on your YouTube videos or blogs can have immense impact.
- anyfactor 4y ago
  > This channel is also good, but it is a bit wacky: Messed up the link. This is the correct one. https://www.youtube.com/c/ZackFreedman https://www.youtube.com/c/ZackFreedman
steve_adams_86 4y ago
In my experience it has largely been about letting myself do it. I get too worried about work and obligations, but I need to relax and follow those impulses. Force myself to make time for stuff. I’ve gone through long stints of neglecting hobbies, but it’s always my fault. Lately I love building out and refining my hydroponic garden’s automation and related application. At the moment I’m expanding it to a mushroom spawning and fruiting system. I spend a few hours a week on it, but I love it. I’m awful with hardware but learn so much every week. Your situation might be different, but I highly recommend literally forcing yourself to make the time. I know that has been my mistake over the last 15 years – never acknowledging and then accommodating the need to just do fun and interesting stuff.
bri3d 4y ago
For me, it's about having a goal which is concrete enough to achieve and deliver satisfaction, but unrelated to daily life enough to not be a stressor. And one major key for me is to never, ever develop a timeline. When I was a kid/teenager, I worked on a lot of game console reverse engineering projects. As an adult, I wanted to get back into systems reverse engineering, but game consoles felt both too "useless" and too locked up. So, since I already had a major car hobby, I decided I'd learn how to calibrate OEM automotive engine control units - both the software reverse engineering and exploitation side and the actual mechanics and engine control side. This turned out to be a great idea because everything fell into a cadence and a nice "proximal development" area - novel enough to be fun and engaging, but achievable enough to get hits of success. There was always something new to learn, but it was always something easy enough to be a week or two away. And there was absolutely no timeline besides my own, so it remained fun. For me as an adult, the two major detriments to curiosity are a timeline (now it's work) and a lack of purpose (now it's just fiddling around). Setting a goal but not a timeline is what really gets me going. YMMV. If I'm not feeling success, I aim at a more achievable goal, or pick up another project. If I'm bored, I aim bigger. And if I feel like I have no "free" time, I rethink priorities. Yes, sometimes work sucks, or an unexpected obligation is a drag, but by and large, as an adult with a marketable skill, I and I think most HN readers are blessed with pretty broad autonomy to decide what to do next. For example: lately, I've left most of these projects behind in favor of day job security and preparing for a family life, but I don't feel stressed out or like I lack "time and energy" - my goals have just moved along as I have.
Baeocystin 4y ago
Have enough stability (money, housing, relationships) that you have mental juice left over for things higher up Maslow's pyramid. I'm not being glib. That's really the answer. Sometimes, it just isn't possible to achieve, and that is both frightening and demoralizing. Doesn't make it any less true.
- mlindner 4y ago
  In my experience it's not a matter of stability but a matter of motivation. The motivation to do this kind of thing feels a lot less now than when I was younger.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Motivation is often just another word for ‘free enough from stress, exhaustion, and distraction to find joy in it’. Really. If you’re lacking in motivation, there is almost always something broken somewhere. If you think not, it’s probably because you’ve trained yourself to ignore it, or refuse to believe it.
    - shnock 4y ago
      This really resounds with me, could you expand? How do you find what is "broken somewhere"?
      - aliqot 4y ago
        de-stimulate yourself
      - imchillyb 4y ago
        True evaluation and introspection of one’s daily, weekly, and monthly obligations and the cost of said obligations. One or more of these obligations is broken if there is no motivation for enjoyable personal activities. Broken may not be immediately fixable or remedied. There may be stress inducing obligations that are simply unavoidable. Sometimes the fix is simply recognizing the emotional and mental cost some activities and obligations impart.
keepquestioning 4y ago
This is literally a security researcher's job. In their spare time they are probably watching porn/netflix like everyone else.
jasmer 4y ago
Just do it. I'll bet you probably have tons of energy, but also more responsibilities and even in your youth you were not that dedicated - you just had moments of intense interest and did stuff for fun without too much diligence and no other worries. Maybe carve out some 'me time' for whatever. And a bit of cardio really, really helps.
etaioinshrdlu 4y ago
I thought I didn't have time or energy for years. As it turned out I just didn't have a project I cared about enough!
sasas 4y ago
For me personally what has worked is going to bed early and waking up early before the world's distractions begin. This gives me 1 to 2 hours every day uninterrupted to work on projects. Why it's working better for me then staying up late to tinker is because I'm guaranteed not to have excuses or distractions such as working into the evening on my day job. Added bonus not waking up tired. Took me about a month to adapt to this routine given I've never - ever - been a morning person in my life. And I'm still not if I go to bed late. Completely cut out all alcohol which ensures better quality sleep - ready to start the day by working on a fun project.
Gasp0de 4y ago
I think they might be researchers, so this is their job.
EricLeer 4y ago
This repo is from a research group from a university in Belgium [1]. In general though all the sybling comments are right. It is a matter of prioritizing projects over other things in live. [1] https://www.esat.kuleuven.be/cosic/ https://www.esat.kuleuven.be/cosic/

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

I know several people who accomplish great things in their spare time. The common theme is that those projects are their entertainment. They get off work and can't wait to go work on their projects. They go to bed on Friday night excited to have time on the weekend to work on their stuff. On the other end of the spectrum, I've mentored college grads for a while who would always complain that they never had time to do anything. I'd often ask them to open up the screen time report on their phone and they'd be shocked to discover they were spending 4 hours per day on Reddit or Netflix or something. You have to choose to make things a priority. It's fine if you just want to relax in your spare time, of course, but the key is to be deliberate about those choices rather than letting the flow of entertainment media carry you away.

hugocbp 4y ago
I think this is key. If you see it as another project, and then you see other things as entertainment and the things you do to relax, it feels like there isn't enough time. I always envy those people that find true entertainment and enjoyment in active activities like this, instead of just passive entertainment to "rest".
beachy 4y ago
I'm not big on motivational but this one from Arnold Schwarzenegger resonated with me and still does. You have so many hours in the day, it's what you use them for that makes a difference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bumPyvzCyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bumPyvzCyo
- Cerium 4y ago
  Along the same vein there is that concept that there is no such thing as being "too busy". Anytime you want to say it, you can instead replace "I'm too busy" with "It is not a priority".
  - ackbar03 4y ago
    this is a good tip. I'll keep that in mind
j45 4y ago
Create > consume always
Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
How do these people have the energy for full time jobs, hobbies, and a family? One of those at 100% for 6-8 hours and I’ma zombie.
- thatguy0900 4y ago
  Some people are just far more driven than others, is the reality. Personally I couldn't spend 8 hours at work then come home and work on a hobby for 4 hours every day either.
  - ajdegol 4y ago
    Work doesn’t have to tax the sprit so greatly; there is a way to work that gives you energy.
    - Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
      Care to share all the jobs you’ve had? I suspect you’re speaking from a position of immense privilege but want to give you the benefit of the doubt.
      - ajdegol 4y ago
        Quite the opposite. There have been moments, when the mission is right, and you are aligned with purpose. You see it in glimpses outside of "jobs" (note I said "work" not jobs).
        Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
        So how do you survive if not by working for a living as the vast majority of humans must?
- elteto 4y ago
  If you have a "typical" family with two young children (say <10 years old) the reality is that you would be sacrificing your time with them to spend on your hobbies. Each day only has 24 hours and this applies for _everybody_. Assume your kids are going to school and the parents go to work. Then the only time when everyone converges at home is ~4 to 5 hours between 4 and 9pm. This is the time slot when you have dinner together, bathe, do homework, go to the playground, do sports, do house chores, go grocery shopping, etc. By the time you are done putting them to bed you are exhausted and there's still house chores to do for the adults, tidying up for the next day, preparing school activities, etc. And you have not been able to spend quality time with your partner yet. This is just reality. You can't get around it. You may me able to squeeze extra hours from here or there, such as by not sleeping 8hrs, but most people can't do that consistently. Therefore, if you are in the above situation then it's incredibly difficult to spend time on hobbies, no matter how motivated you are, because it is a question of time, not motivation. So don't feel bad if you prioritize spending time with your children for now because this time won't ever come back. You can always start a new hobby but you can't always take your child to the playground. As they grow older you might be able to align your interests with them and spend quality time together, but even then you have to align yourself more to what they want than viceversa. You won't be modding a Starlink terminal with your child and have him remain interested and engaged the whole time. But together you might build a cool world in Minecraft or whatever. Spend your time wisely! It doesn't come back.
causi 4y ago
It's so easy to get trapped in a local minima when with just a little effort you can have a much better time. I got so much happier when I made a conscious effort to play videogames instead of doomscrolling.
teux 4y ago
The screentime report was jarring for me as well. It sounds silly, but I used the parental control on my iphone to turn it «dumb». I can still use the internet, but blocked most social media sites and apps, reddit/etc. My good friend has the passcode. If I need them I can use my laptop/desktop, but it’s not as gratifying and right there. My screentime dropped by 4-5 hours per day, it’s insane. Now I get bored occasionally and (unintentionally) frustrated my phone can’t solve that, but I do read more, and work on more hobbies.

anyfactor 4y ago

I think hardware hacking is the coolest stuff ever. That is why we have so many people buying Raspberry Pi-s. I guess the best way to keep your curiosity after X years of age is to start with a really challenging project that you know has steps of micro-success. Also, find a motivating community where you can chill, rant or discuss things with. That's why I am here, you are here. You need to have some level of familiarity with the domain of knowledge so, you know what you can achieve in what amount of time. There needs to be the idea of challenge, definite success and somewhat familiarity involved. My example: I like the old school WSB community. If you know, the tesla-short era. So, I attempted to build tooling that they will enjoy, and I will have fun discussing. My checklist of accomplishments was things I knew can be completed in a few hours. The progressive dopamine hits kept me focused. I was doing great. Why did I fail? Community itself become not the same. Fun discussions were harder to find. Market kept going up, meaning tools that I made is worthless because anything I didn't make sense because stonks go up. A Complex JavaScript project felt harder to write than I anticipated. So again, community, challenge and knowing your limits. If you are looking for hardware hacking motivation, these two videos blew my mind. Joe Grand, crypto wallet hacking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT9y-KQbqi4&t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT9y-KQbqi4&t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icBD5PiyoyI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icBD5PiyoyI This channel is also good, but it is a bit wacky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icBD5PiyoyI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icBD5PiyoyI Edit: Also validation. When WSB got extremely popular, and it was being spammed. Subreddit was flooded with spam and mods removed posts aggressively. It wasn't the place to show, "look what I made". Not blaming the mods, I just didn't belong anymore. If you can achieve validation by yourself internally, that is incredible. But the average human needs other people to say, "Good job :)" Finding a way to get validation from your projects is fantastic, a friendly community and likes on your YouTube videos or blogs can have immense impact.

anyfactor 4y ago
> This channel is also good, but it is a bit wacky: Messed up the link. This is the correct one. https://www.youtube.com/c/ZackFreedman https://www.youtube.com/c/ZackFreedman

steve_adams_86 4y ago

In my experience it has largely been about letting myself do it. I get too worried about work and obligations, but I need to relax and follow those impulses. Force myself to make time for stuff. I’ve gone through long stints of neglecting hobbies, but it’s always my fault. Lately I love building out and refining my hydroponic garden’s automation and related application. At the moment I’m expanding it to a mushroom spawning and fruiting system. I spend a few hours a week on it, but I love it. I’m awful with hardware but learn so much every week. Your situation might be different, but I highly recommend literally forcing yourself to make the time. I know that has been my mistake over the last 15 years – never acknowledging and then accommodating the need to just do fun and interesting stuff.

bri3d 4y ago

For me, it's about having a goal which is concrete enough to achieve and deliver satisfaction, but unrelated to daily life enough to not be a stressor. And one major key for me is to never, ever develop a timeline. When I was a kid/teenager, I worked on a lot of game console reverse engineering projects. As an adult, I wanted to get back into systems reverse engineering, but game consoles felt both too "useless" and too locked up. So, since I already had a major car hobby, I decided I'd learn how to calibrate OEM automotive engine control units - both the software reverse engineering and exploitation side and the actual mechanics and engine control side. This turned out to be a great idea because everything fell into a cadence and a nice "proximal development" area - novel enough to be fun and engaging, but achievable enough to get hits of success. There was always something new to learn, but it was always something easy enough to be a week or two away. And there was absolutely no timeline besides my own, so it remained fun. For me as an adult, the two major detriments to curiosity are a timeline (now it's work) and a lack of purpose (now it's just fiddling around). Setting a goal but not a timeline is what really gets me going. YMMV. If I'm not feeling success, I aim at a more achievable goal, or pick up another project. If I'm bored, I aim bigger. And if I feel like I have no "free" time, I rethink priorities. Yes, sometimes work sucks, or an unexpected obligation is a drag, but by and large, as an adult with a marketable skill, I and I think most HN readers are blessed with pretty broad autonomy to decide what to do next. For example: lately, I've left most of these projects behind in favor of day job security and preparing for a family life, but I don't feel stressed out or like I lack "time and energy" - my goals have just moved along as I have.

Baeocystin 4y ago

Have enough stability (money, housing, relationships) that you have mental juice left over for things higher up Maslow's pyramid. I'm not being glib. That's really the answer. Sometimes, it just isn't possible to achieve, and that is both frightening and demoralizing. Doesn't make it any less true.

mlindner 4y ago
In my experience it's not a matter of stability but a matter of motivation. The motivation to do this kind of thing feels a lot less now than when I was younger.
- lazide 4y ago
  Motivation is often just another word for ‘free enough from stress, exhaustion, and distraction to find joy in it’. Really. If you’re lacking in motivation, there is almost always something broken somewhere. If you think not, it’s probably because you’ve trained yourself to ignore it, or refuse to believe it.
  - shnock 4y ago
    This really resounds with me, could you expand? How do you find what is "broken somewhere"?
    - aliqot 4y ago
      de-stimulate yourself
    - imchillyb 4y ago
      True evaluation and introspection of one’s daily, weekly, and monthly obligations and the cost of said obligations. One or more of these obligations is broken if there is no motivation for enjoyable personal activities. Broken may not be immediately fixable or remedied. There may be stress inducing obligations that are simply unavoidable. Sometimes the fix is simply recognizing the emotional and mental cost some activities and obligations impart.

keepquestioning 4y ago

This is literally a security researcher's job. In their spare time they are probably watching porn/netflix like everyone else.

jasmer 4y ago

Just do it. I'll bet you probably have tons of energy, but also more responsibilities and even in your youth you were not that dedicated - you just had moments of intense interest and did stuff for fun without too much diligence and no other worries. Maybe carve out some 'me time' for whatever. And a bit of cardio really, really helps.

etaioinshrdlu 4y ago

I thought I didn't have time or energy for years. As it turned out I just didn't have a project I cared about enough!

sasas 4y ago

For me personally what has worked is going to bed early and waking up early before the world's distractions begin. This gives me 1 to 2 hours every day uninterrupted to work on projects. Why it's working better for me then staying up late to tinker is because I'm guaranteed not to have excuses or distractions such as working into the evening on my day job. Added bonus not waking up tired. Took me about a month to adapt to this routine given I've never - ever - been a morning person in my life. And I'm still not if I go to bed late. Completely cut out all alcohol which ensures better quality sleep - ready to start the day by working on a fun project.

Gasp0de 4y ago

I think they might be researchers, so this is their job.

EricLeer 4y ago

This repo is from a research group from a university in Belgium [1]. In general though all the sybling comments are right. It is a matter of prioritizing projects over other things in live. [1] https://www.esat.kuleuven.be/cosic/ https://www.esat.kuleuven.be/cosic/