3 ms·

The point is where you arrive to a country you should be the one adjusting you language to them and not the other way around. That applies even when you speak t

The point is where you arrive to a country you should be the one adjusting you language to them and not the other way around. That applies even when you speak the most popular language - arguably chinese - and arrive to anglophone countries which speak the “Internet language”

incrudible 4y ago
Ostensibly, countries like Germany are competing to attract talent and investment, mandatory bureaucracy in a relatively obscure language is going to be a detriment to that.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  A language spoken across Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Lichtenstein, and Luxembourg, parallel in weight to French across European countries, and in the old days the lingua Franca in Eastern Europe, which would rather speak German than English. Hardly obscure.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >lingua Franca in Eastern Europe, which would rather speak German than English No we wouldn't. As an Eastern European I can assure most of my countrymen know and prefer English far better than they prefer and know German. You're probably thinking of the countries bordering Germany that still have ethic German populations from the post-WW2 era, or the ones part of the former Austrian empire (Slovenia, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Hungary, etc.) where learning German was mandatory during those times and the tradition of learning it in school as the main foreign language was kept till recently, but if you go a bit east, or look at youth of today, almost nobody speaks German compared to how many speak English. If you go as a tourist to Slovenia, Croatia or Bosnia, and talk to old people, you're far more likely to get by in German rather than English, but if you talk to young people, it's almost the complete opposite, which is fascinating.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      Which is what I was doing about 20 years ago, I know for sure how much German and how much English helped me to get by.
- rurban 4y ago
  bureaucracy is not mandatory here. If you are clever you can entirely bypass it. When I registered my German company the worst was to get an internet contract. Registering was done in one or two day. Internet needed more than 2 months. First you don't need a notary. Second you absolutely must not need to register a Gewerbe, as this will inherit the most costs. Check how your work is a "free Gewerbe" (eg. providing system IT services, opposite to application IT services). Third, get rid of a tax advisor, if you care to read the tax laws and maybe a book. I only took a tax advisor in one of my early companies, and it was a massive pain and costly. Without I always managed fine, and survived many extra tax office checks. Finanzamt and Elster is easy. Social insurance also, just a bit expensive. GmBH is expensive, so just take personal risk and register a normal UG.
brigandish 4y ago
> The point is where you arrive to a country you should be the one adjusting you language to them and not the other way around. If you have a lot of money/skill/experience and the country wants it then I would expect the country to improve its services (in this case business but we could be referring to council services for immigrants, the immigration process itself etc) to the point where language is not a problem.
Accacin 4y ago
It's not always so simple though, I moved to France when I was younger for a few years and thanks to a girlfriend who spoke French fluently and living there, I managed to pick it up relatively quickly. However, even after a year or so, when I had to go to some more 'official' appointments (for like CAF and banks, etc.), it was like I didn't speak French at all. None of the language they used was language I used in daily life. My wife is Chinese, speaks English great but when she has to fill out more official forms she still struggles with some of the language used. I do understand their point that English should probably be available in these instances - of course the contracts will be upheld in German. I do think when moving to a new country, people should learn the local language, but languages are big and the subset we need for daily, effective communication is quite small.

incrudible 4y ago

Ostensibly, countries like Germany are competing to attract talent and investment, mandatory bureaucracy in a relatively obscure language is going to be a detriment to that.

pjmlp 4y ago
A language spoken across Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Lichtenstein, and Luxembourg, parallel in weight to French across European countries, and in the old days the lingua Franca in Eastern Europe, which would rather speak German than English. Hardly obscure.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >lingua Franca in Eastern Europe, which would rather speak German than English No we wouldn't. As an Eastern European I can assure most of my countrymen know and prefer English far better than they prefer and know German. You're probably thinking of the countries bordering Germany that still have ethic German populations from the post-WW2 era, or the ones part of the former Austrian empire (Slovenia, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Hungary, etc.) where learning German was mandatory during those times and the tradition of learning it in school as the main foreign language was kept till recently, but if you go a bit east, or look at youth of today, almost nobody speaks German compared to how many speak English. If you go as a tourist to Slovenia, Croatia or Bosnia, and talk to old people, you're far more likely to get by in German rather than English, but if you talk to young people, it's almost the complete opposite, which is fascinating.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    Which is what I was doing about 20 years ago, I know for sure how much German and how much English helped me to get by.
rurban 4y ago
bureaucracy is not mandatory here. If you are clever you can entirely bypass it. When I registered my German company the worst was to get an internet contract. Registering was done in one or two day. Internet needed more than 2 months. First you don't need a notary. Second you absolutely must not need to register a Gewerbe, as this will inherit the most costs. Check how your work is a "free Gewerbe" (eg. providing system IT services, opposite to application IT services). Third, get rid of a tax advisor, if you care to read the tax laws and maybe a book. I only took a tax advisor in one of my early companies, and it was a massive pain and costly. Without I always managed fine, and survived many extra tax office checks. Finanzamt and Elster is easy. Social insurance also, just a bit expensive. GmBH is expensive, so just take personal risk and register a normal UG.

brigandish 4y ago

> The point is where you arrive to a country you should be the one adjusting you language to them and not the other way around. If you have a lot of money/skill/experience and the country wants it then I would expect the country to improve its services (in this case business but we could be referring to council services for immigrants, the immigration process itself etc) to the point where language is not a problem.

Accacin 4y ago

It's not always so simple though, I moved to France when I was younger for a few years and thanks to a girlfriend who spoke French fluently and living there, I managed to pick it up relatively quickly. However, even after a year or so, when I had to go to some more 'official' appointments (for like CAF and banks, etc.), it was like I didn't speak French at all. None of the language they used was language I used in daily life. My wife is Chinese, speaks English great but when she has to fill out more official forms she still struggles with some of the language used. I do understand their point that English should probably be available in these instances - of course the contracts will be upheld in German. I do think when moving to a new country, people should learn the local language, but languages are big and the subset we need for daily, effective communication is quite small.