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I think the author focused too much on the “it’s in German” argumetn. All other problems listed with the process do not shine that much when people in comments

I think the author focused too much on the “it’s in German” argumetn. All other problems listed with the process do not shine that much when people in comments focus on that: a foreigner should not expect a country to conduct its legal proceedings in a language different to their native. On a different note I found the tone of the article a little appalling with author’s dismissive attitude like “What is a Notary? I’m not sure”, “ I have not checked, but I strongly doubt…”. One does not start a company every other day so this process requires attention and not checking or not researching certain things demonstrates little patience and “I know better” attitude that is harmful down the line. It would be interesting to see the author research why some things are the way they are, there is always a historic reason that might be valid or not in the current age, but it’s good to understand before we critique.

Major_Grooves 4y ago
I'd rather say everyone else focussed too much on the "in German" part. That really was the least of the problem with the process. wrt to my "tone" - that is rather a stylistic thing - I am trying to write with a bit of humour - tongue in cheek. I do literally know what a notary is, yet at the same time the notary process is quite alien if you are from the UK (I am aware they exist there too but they are rare). Indeed the historical reason for some of these things is quite interesting. Someone else shared some detailed article about it with me a while ago. I would acknowledge that there are "benefits" to this laborious process - such as less shell companies or fraud.
sbacic 4y ago
> a foreigner should not expect a country to conduct its legal proceedings in a language different to their native. If that is the case, perhaps countries should consider their native language as an actual disadvantage when it comes to attracting foreign investment? After all, if I need to learn, say, Slovenian, to open and run a business in Slovenia, that makes me less likely to do so. Which means that Slovenia might need to settle for lower tax rates or provide some other benefits in order to entice me to do business there.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  Of course it is. The same is true for every country. I don't see a Chinese, Polish, Russian, or Japanese guide on the website of the British Chamber of Commerce. American websites also feature Spanish but I don't speak a word of that either. People who can invest large amounts of money can afford a translator. Even if registering a company in Slovenia is easy, dealing with Slovenians themselves will require learning about their language and culture. If you need to ask "what is a notary" then you failed to do so in Germany. You can't expect the rest of the world to work exactly like it does at home. And if the rest of the world doesn't work like it does at home, that doesn't make it any worse necessarily. From the country's perspective: what good does this foreign startup bring? There's clearly no money in it because apparently hiring someone to look over legal documents is considered to be too expensive. The first thing this person did was set up a holding company on top of a normal company because they were probably trying to avoid having to pay tax somewhere along the way. Germany can use some modernisation, for sure, but half of these complaints are "I don't want to put in the effort so someone should do it for me" or "I hired people to do the difficult work and then did all the difficult work myself anyway for some reason" or maybe "it's hard to set up a company where I have zero responsibility of what the company does to its operating environment".
  - sbacic 4y ago
    > People who can invest large amounts of money can afford a translator. Yeah, that sound like the European way of thinking about business. "What do you mean you don't want to spend money on red tape and pointless busy-work? Maybe you're too poor to start a business?" On the other hand, the Anglo-sphere makes it as easy as possible to start a business. And thus, the US is a hotbed of innovation while Europe...is not. > You can't expect the rest of the world to work exactly like it does at home. Funny you should mention that. I come from a small country. And when you come from a small country, learning a foreign language is basically required. Nobody is going to bother learning your language in order to communicate with you. Why this idea is so foreign in _bigger_ countries was always fascinating to me (even though I know why). > From the country's perspective: what good does this foreign startup bring? Free money without the country having to do much? I mean, if I was a government, I'd be pretty happy with somebody paying me money for doing nothing other than keeping a piece of paper with a company name in a filing cabinet. I'd be even happier if somebody I didn't have to raise or educate moved here to pay taxes and spend their money.
jonathanstrange 4y ago
Nevertheless, these kind of complicated administrative processes should annoy anyone who hasn't lost their soul by too many papercuts already. From a technical perspective, even starting a GmbH could be as simple as going to a web page, putting "Declare GmbH" into the shopping cart (cost: 25000 EUR), filling out a simple form and pressing "Order." German governments, politicians, and authorities have been talking about digital innovation at every meeting and on every fare for the past three decades and have spent billions on it, but in reality not much has happened. When I lived in Denmark 15 years ago as a foreigner at least there was already a citizen center where a super-friendly attendant asked me how they can help me, like in a shop. Moreover, almost everything could be done with a state-delivered ID (CPR number and a digital ID). I no longer live in Germany (or Denmark), but as far as I can see Germany is still far behind other countries in terms of simplifying and putting administrative matters online.

Major_Grooves 4y ago

I'd rather say everyone else focussed too much on the "in German" part. That really was the least of the problem with the process. wrt to my "tone" - that is rather a stylistic thing - I am trying to write with a bit of humour - tongue in cheek. I do literally know what a notary is, yet at the same time the notary process is quite alien if you are from the UK (I am aware they exist there too but they are rare). Indeed the historical reason for some of these things is quite interesting. Someone else shared some detailed article about it with me a while ago. I would acknowledge that there are "benefits" to this laborious process - such as less shell companies or fraud.

sbacic 4y ago

> a foreigner should not expect a country to conduct its legal proceedings in a language different to their native. If that is the case, perhaps countries should consider their native language as an actual disadvantage when it comes to attracting foreign investment? After all, if I need to learn, say, Slovenian, to open and run a business in Slovenia, that makes me less likely to do so. Which means that Slovenia might need to settle for lower tax rates or provide some other benefits in order to entice me to do business there.

jeroenhd 4y ago
Of course it is. The same is true for every country. I don't see a Chinese, Polish, Russian, or Japanese guide on the website of the British Chamber of Commerce. American websites also feature Spanish but I don't speak a word of that either. People who can invest large amounts of money can afford a translator. Even if registering a company in Slovenia is easy, dealing with Slovenians themselves will require learning about their language and culture. If you need to ask "what is a notary" then you failed to do so in Germany. You can't expect the rest of the world to work exactly like it does at home. And if the rest of the world doesn't work like it does at home, that doesn't make it any worse necessarily. From the country's perspective: what good does this foreign startup bring? There's clearly no money in it because apparently hiring someone to look over legal documents is considered to be too expensive. The first thing this person did was set up a holding company on top of a normal company because they were probably trying to avoid having to pay tax somewhere along the way. Germany can use some modernisation, for sure, but half of these complaints are "I don't want to put in the effort so someone should do it for me" or "I hired people to do the difficult work and then did all the difficult work myself anyway for some reason" or maybe "it's hard to set up a company where I have zero responsibility of what the company does to its operating environment".
- sbacic 4y ago
  > People who can invest large amounts of money can afford a translator. Yeah, that sound like the European way of thinking about business. "What do you mean you don't want to spend money on red tape and pointless busy-work? Maybe you're too poor to start a business?" On the other hand, the Anglo-sphere makes it as easy as possible to start a business. And thus, the US is a hotbed of innovation while Europe...is not. > You can't expect the rest of the world to work exactly like it does at home. Funny you should mention that. I come from a small country. And when you come from a small country, learning a foreign language is basically required. Nobody is going to bother learning your language in order to communicate with you. Why this idea is so foreign in _bigger_ countries was always fascinating to me (even though I know why). > From the country's perspective: what good does this foreign startup bring? Free money without the country having to do much? I mean, if I was a government, I'd be pretty happy with somebody paying me money for doing nothing other than keeping a piece of paper with a company name in a filing cabinet. I'd be even happier if somebody I didn't have to raise or educate moved here to pay taxes and spend their money.

jonathanstrange 4y ago

Nevertheless, these kind of complicated administrative processes should annoy anyone who hasn't lost their soul by too many papercuts already. From a technical perspective, even starting a GmbH could be as simple as going to a web page, putting "Declare GmbH" into the shopping cart (cost: 25000 EUR), filling out a simple form and pressing "Order." German governments, politicians, and authorities have been talking about digital innovation at every meeting and on every fare for the past three decades and have spent billions on it, but in reality not much has happened. When I lived in Denmark 15 years ago as a foreigner at least there was already a citizen center where a super-friendly attendant asked me how they can help me, like in a shop. Moreover, almost everything could be done with a state-delivered ID (CPR number and a digital ID). I no longer live in Germany (or Denmark), but as far as I can see Germany is still far behind other countries in terms of simplifying and putting administrative matters online.