3 ms·

Maybe a daft question but despite all this, would you recommend it? I used to be into weightlifting/CrossFit and was quite naturally strong but always a bit sho

by rcarr 4y ago

Maybe a daft question but despite all this, would you recommend it? I used to be into weightlifting/CrossFit and was quite naturally strong but always a bit short of where I wanted to be, probably through lack of stability in my life meaning my routines were constantly disrupted. I was also not aware of just quite how rampant steroids were and how my desired physique (nothing massively over the top but probably something akin to a CrossFit athlete like Mat Fraser/Rich Froning or Marvel superhero physique) was actually out of reach without steroids unless you were willing to be very strict on diet and also put in at least 10 hours in the gym, probably for at least 2 to 3 years. I’m now in early thirties, and things are slightly more stable but I’m also in the worst shape of my life. I was planning on getting back into reasonable shape over the next 3 to 6 months and then doing a SARM cycle or two to see if I could get to where I wanted to be. My plan was to then stop and attempt to maintain the gains I’d accumulated. From what I’ve read SARMs seem a safer way to go. I’d be doing it sensibly, aiming to take the smallest dose that worked and getting monthly blood tests if I can afford it to minimise the health risks. As I’m now approaching midlife and my life hasn’t really turned out the way I’d planned (no wife, no kids, no skyrocketing career) I feel like I don’t really have all that much to lose. Wouldn’t mind getting the opinion of someone whose done this kind of thing though to see if they think it’s worth it even if you end up on TRT. I kind of feel like everyone ends up on TRT naturally anyway (or should be taking it if they’re over 45) so there’s not a hell of a lot of difference.

gavinray 4y ago
I would recommend medically prescribed TRT absolutely, it's been life-changing in terms of mood/depression and energy. Especially if you're getting older, at some point you're going to naturally wind up at levels so low you ought to have the option to have it anyways. You'll have to inject yourself once a week, for the rest of your life. It sucks but the benefits are worth it (IMO). I look at it sort of like a multivitamin. One word of caution about SARMs like LGD-4033 -- despite not being hormonal, they can still cause a degree of suppression. I'd get bloodwork done before & after to be sure, like you mention. As an aside: > I was also not aware of just quite how rampant steroids were and how my desired physique (nothing massively over the top but probably something akin to a CrossFit athlete like Mat Fraser/Rich Froning or Marvel superhero physique) was actually out of reach without steroids unless you were willing to be very strict on diet and also put in at least 10 hours in the gym, probably for at least 2 to 3 years. Yeah, steroids are much more common than folks think, and nearly everyone lies about using them (why would you admit to use, what do you have to gain?). I'm hoping that eventually we de-stigmatize them so that this sort of thing stops happening. I too had these unrealistic goals based on a lie that I thought I could achieve naturally. It turns out my idol was juiced to the gills.
- rcarr 4y ago
  Yeah, I think they are slowly coming round to being destigmatised, I would say primarily because of the pros in several sports coming out and talking about them openly on YouTube, movie stars starting to open up, and then high profile people like Joe Rogan being open about his TRT usage. I think there is a wide spread acknowledgement that the majority of high profile men with jacked physiques are doing or have done something, particularly if they look very striated. I don’t think that wide spread awareness was there in the mid 00s or even the early 2010s. Aside from it being more out in the open, the other main thing that is making me consider it is finding out about the scientific study that showed someone taking steroids doing absolutely no training puts on more muscle mass than someone natural doing very heavy training. It kind of just made me feel like training natural was pointless if the steroids gave such a massive advantage. Kind of like playing an FPS and everyone is using auto assist. It may not be right, but if everyone is doing it and it’s become the new accepted normal then you pretty much have to follow suit otherwise you’re just going to get left behind.
- wuschel 4y ago
  > Yeah, steroids are much more common than folks think, and nearly everyone lies about using them (why would you admit to use, what do you have to gain?). I am sorry, but I don’t believe that to be true at all. In my environment, I have not encountered anyone who took steroids. Of course, it might have been hidden, but that would really surprise me. Perhaps you are speaking in the weightlifting/sports community? I am in fifth decade of my life, and fortunately healthy and fit without any supplements, and I would be careful to take any in regard to the biochemical balance of my body.
  - rcarr 4y ago
    In the UK, it is estimated up to 1 million are taking them which would be around 1 in 33 males. The article was from 2018, I'd bet the number has increased since. Obviously it depends on a multitude of factors but you most likely have an acquaintance who has tried them but keeps quiet due to the stigma associated. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/21/up-to-a-million-britons-use-steroids-for-looks-not-sport https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/21/up-to-a-mill...
cjbgkagh 4y ago
AFAIK practically everyone with experience would recommend you start with a simple Test cycle to see how you like it. As best I can tell a lot of the elite athletes are using peptide based meds which can give a huge amount of control over their physicality.
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
> As I’m now approaching midlife and my life hasn’t really turned out the way I’d planned (no wife, no kids, no skyrocketing career) I feel like I don’t really have all that much to lose. I know a group of older guys who had the same mentality when they were younger, but now generally regret their steroid use and subsequent destruction of their natural testosterone production. You will find a lot of optimistic posts and articles from people who want to believe that HPTA axis suppression from steroids and/or exogenous testosterone is reversible, but it’s quite common for people to irreversibly damage their natural production despite doing all of the “right” things and cycle practices. If you go into this, do it with the assumption that it’s a one-way street that will result in a lifelong dependency on testosterone medications and potential adjunct medications that need to be adjusted from time to time. The other thing people discover is that while TRT can get your testosterone levels back to the same number as before, it never quite feels the same as natural production did. Your hormone systems are more than singular chemicals and the various diurnal cycles and downstream metabolites have effects that aren’t accurately replicated with the medications. A lot of people will spend time trying to fine tune with aromatase inhibitors and so on, but it’s difficult to get it all right. It’s not a case of “more is better” when it comes to testosterone, either. Finally, it’s interesting to see how much the older power lifters I know regret all of the damage done to their bodies. Steroids allow for higher weights, but that opens the door to bigger injuries and more wear and tear. The person who originally got me into lifting ultimately committed suicide after years of pain from injuries and reduced mobility from injuries sustained during his steroid use. It’s easy to look at these stories and think “that won’t happen to me because I’ll do it the right way” but I’ve seen enough people go down the steroid use -> TRT -> regret sequence that I suggest you don’t approach this lightly. You actually have a lot to lose, and the potential gains (in your life, not just the gym) are likely not going to be as satisfying as you imagine them to be after the early effects of first-time use wear off.

by rcarr 4y ago

gavinray 4y ago

I would recommend medically prescribed TRT absolutely, it's been life-changing in terms of mood/depression and energy. Especially if you're getting older, at some point you're going to naturally wind up at levels so low you ought to have the option to have it anyways. You'll have to inject yourself once a week, for the rest of your life. It sucks but the benefits are worth it (IMO). I look at it sort of like a multivitamin. One word of caution about SARMs like LGD-4033 -- despite not being hormonal, they can still cause a degree of suppression. I'd get bloodwork done before & after to be sure, like you mention. As an aside: > I was also not aware of just quite how rampant steroids were and how my desired physique (nothing massively over the top but probably something akin to a CrossFit athlete like Mat Fraser/Rich Froning or Marvel superhero physique) was actually out of reach without steroids unless you were willing to be very strict on diet and also put in at least 10 hours in the gym, probably for at least 2 to 3 years. Yeah, steroids are much more common than folks think, and nearly everyone lies about using them (why would you admit to use, what do you have to gain?). I'm hoping that eventually we de-stigmatize them so that this sort of thing stops happening. I too had these unrealistic goals based on a lie that I thought I could achieve naturally. It turns out my idol was juiced to the gills.

rcarr 4y ago
Yeah, I think they are slowly coming round to being destigmatised, I would say primarily because of the pros in several sports coming out and talking about them openly on YouTube, movie stars starting to open up, and then high profile people like Joe Rogan being open about his TRT usage. I think there is a wide spread acknowledgement that the majority of high profile men with jacked physiques are doing or have done something, particularly if they look very striated. I don’t think that wide spread awareness was there in the mid 00s or even the early 2010s. Aside from it being more out in the open, the other main thing that is making me consider it is finding out about the scientific study that showed someone taking steroids doing absolutely no training puts on more muscle mass than someone natural doing very heavy training. It kind of just made me feel like training natural was pointless if the steroids gave such a massive advantage. Kind of like playing an FPS and everyone is using auto assist. It may not be right, but if everyone is doing it and it’s become the new accepted normal then you pretty much have to follow suit otherwise you’re just going to get left behind.
wuschel 4y ago
> Yeah, steroids are much more common than folks think, and nearly everyone lies about using them (why would you admit to use, what do you have to gain?). I am sorry, but I don’t believe that to be true at all. In my environment, I have not encountered anyone who took steroids. Of course, it might have been hidden, but that would really surprise me. Perhaps you are speaking in the weightlifting/sports community? I am in fifth decade of my life, and fortunately healthy and fit without any supplements, and I would be careful to take any in regard to the biochemical balance of my body.
- rcarr 4y ago
  In the UK, it is estimated up to 1 million are taking them which would be around 1 in 33 males. The article was from 2018, I'd bet the number has increased since. Obviously it depends on a multitude of factors but you most likely have an acquaintance who has tried them but keeps quiet due to the stigma associated. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/21/up-to-a-million-britons-use-steroids-for-looks-not-sport https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/21/up-to-a-mill...

cjbgkagh 4y ago

AFAIK practically everyone with experience would recommend you start with a simple Test cycle to see how you like it. As best I can tell a lot of the elite athletes are using peptide based meds which can give a huge amount of control over their physicality.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

> As I’m now approaching midlife and my life hasn’t really turned out the way I’d planned (no wife, no kids, no skyrocketing career) I feel like I don’t really have all that much to lose. I know a group of older guys who had the same mentality when they were younger, but now generally regret their steroid use and subsequent destruction of their natural testosterone production. You will find a lot of optimistic posts and articles from people who want to believe that HPTA axis suppression from steroids and/or exogenous testosterone is reversible, but it’s quite common for people to irreversibly damage their natural production despite doing all of the “right” things and cycle practices. If you go into this, do it with the assumption that it’s a one-way street that will result in a lifelong dependency on testosterone medications and potential adjunct medications that need to be adjusted from time to time. The other thing people discover is that while TRT can get your testosterone levels back to the same number as before, it never quite feels the same as natural production did. Your hormone systems are more than singular chemicals and the various diurnal cycles and downstream metabolites have effects that aren’t accurately replicated with the medications. A lot of people will spend time trying to fine tune with aromatase inhibitors and so on, but it’s difficult to get it all right. It’s not a case of “more is better” when it comes to testosterone, either. Finally, it’s interesting to see how much the older power lifters I know regret all of the damage done to their bodies. Steroids allow for higher weights, but that opens the door to bigger injuries and more wear and tear. The person who originally got me into lifting ultimately committed suicide after years of pain from injuries and reduced mobility from injuries sustained during his steroid use. It’s easy to look at these stories and think “that won’t happen to me because I’ll do it the right way” but I’ve seen enough people go down the steroid use -> TRT -> regret sequence that I suggest you don’t approach this lightly. You actually have a lot to lose, and the potential gains (in your life, not just the gym) are likely not going to be as satisfying as you imagine them to be after the early effects of first-time use wear off.