3 ms·

Different people react to the same meds in vastly different ways. You’ll need more than N=1 to throw out notions of general effects of large amounts of steroids

Different people react to the same meds in vastly different ways. You’ll need more than N=1 to throw out notions of general effects of large amounts of steroids.

gavinray 4y ago
This is true, but if testosterone is what makes humans aggressive, wouldn't I have been ... aggressive, with 10 peoples worth in me, were that the case? My point was to illustrate how reductionist that kind of thinking is. It's also possible I have weird neurochemistry and am an outlier, so I didn't respond typically.
- cjbgkagh 4y ago
  The response to Test isn’t linear. Many of the effects are threshold and proportion based. I think you would have got a stronger mental reaction if you also took aromatase inhibitors to keep the E2 down. But yeah as you mention you’re likely an outlier. I don’t think anyone is claiming steroids makes everyone aggravated. Plus there are different types of steroids with Tren being more strongly linked to aggression.
  - gavinray 4y ago
    I took, at various points, Tren, Deca, Mast, Anavar, Primobolan, Equipoise, Trestolone, Superdrol, Dianabol, Anadrol, Winstrol, Epistane, Halotestin, Methyltrienolone, Methylstenbolone, and an alphabet soup of various other prohormones, peptides, as well as insulin and HGH. I treated my body like a walking science lab during my teen years. I took AI (if you would have looked at my bloodwork, you would have seen that at 7,500 ng/dL Test my E2 was crushed below the normal reference range, I actually had LOW estradiol) but it caused more issues than it was worth. People on the internet largely don't know what they're talking about when it comes to anabolic steroids, I discovered that the hard way.
    - cjbgkagh 4y ago
      That’s quite an outlier. I didn’t read your tests but I did wonder why you let E2 get that high in your msg. My working theory is the mechanism is similar to alcohol with a lowering of inhibition. The aggregation has to be in you from the start.
      - gocartStatue 4y ago
        Some bodybuilders advocate not lowering e unless your boobs start to grow ;) better on the mood, joints, skin etc.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- tsol 4y ago
  >This is true, but if testosterone is what makes humans aggressive, wouldn't I have been ... aggressive, with 10 peoples worth in me, were that the case? Not necessarily. Maybe what's normal for 10 people is normal for you. Natural testosterone levels are known to vary by a huge amount
- Gibbon1 4y ago
  One of the things people generally aren't aware of is for most tissues that respond to testosterone the receptors are saturated. So your prostate at normal levels the receptors are saturated. Which means more testosterone does nothing at all. The big exception to the above is muscles. Interestingly body builders seem to think the culprit behind mood disturbances with steroid use is estrogen.
vegetablepotpie 4y ago
It’s sort of like a mathematical proof. If I say there are only 7 barker codes, all you need to do is find the 8th to prove me wrong. If I say testosterone levels cause men to be more assertive, here is an example where that is not the case.
- ponow 4y ago
  In almost all of these health discussion, assertions generally involve an implicit "on average". So, no, it's not like a mathematical proof, which requires a single counter-example to dismantle. E.g., men are taller than women, is a typical statement that is understood "on average".
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
True! But this story is actually very common on TRT forums. A lot of guys end up on the steroid -> TRT pathway thinking they’re going to become a different person, only to discover that testosterone isn’t the singular driver of masculinity that we’ve been led to believe.

Different people react to the same meds in vastly different ways. You’ll need more than N=1 to throw out notions of general effects of large amounts of steroids.

gavinray 4y ago

This is true, but if testosterone is what makes humans aggressive, wouldn't I have been ... aggressive, with 10 peoples worth in me, were that the case? My point was to illustrate how reductionist that kind of thinking is. It's also possible I have weird neurochemistry and am an outlier, so I didn't respond typically.

cjbgkagh 4y ago
The response to Test isn’t linear. Many of the effects are threshold and proportion based. I think you would have got a stronger mental reaction if you also took aromatase inhibitors to keep the E2 down. But yeah as you mention you’re likely an outlier. I don’t think anyone is claiming steroids makes everyone aggravated. Plus there are different types of steroids with Tren being more strongly linked to aggression.
- gavinray 4y ago
  I took, at various points, Tren, Deca, Mast, Anavar, Primobolan, Equipoise, Trestolone, Superdrol, Dianabol, Anadrol, Winstrol, Epistane, Halotestin, Methyltrienolone, Methylstenbolone, and an alphabet soup of various other prohormones, peptides, as well as insulin and HGH. I treated my body like a walking science lab during my teen years. I took AI (if you would have looked at my bloodwork, you would have seen that at 7,500 ng/dL Test my E2 was crushed below the normal reference range, I actually had LOW estradiol) but it caused more issues than it was worth. People on the internet largely don't know what they're talking about when it comes to anabolic steroids, I discovered that the hard way.
  - cjbgkagh 4y ago
    That’s quite an outlier. I didn’t read your tests but I did wonder why you let E2 get that high in your msg. My working theory is the mechanism is similar to alcohol with a lowering of inhibition. The aggregation has to be in you from the start.
    - gocartStatue 4y ago
      Some bodybuilders advocate not lowering e unless your boobs start to grow ;) better on the mood, joints, skin etc.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
tsol 4y ago
>This is true, but if testosterone is what makes humans aggressive, wouldn't I have been ... aggressive, with 10 peoples worth in me, were that the case? Not necessarily. Maybe what's normal for 10 people is normal for you. Natural testosterone levels are known to vary by a huge amount
Gibbon1 4y ago
One of the things people generally aren't aware of is for most tissues that respond to testosterone the receptors are saturated. So your prostate at normal levels the receptors are saturated. Which means more testosterone does nothing at all. The big exception to the above is muscles. Interestingly body builders seem to think the culprit behind mood disturbances with steroid use is estrogen.

vegetablepotpie 4y ago

It’s sort of like a mathematical proof. If I say there are only 7 barker codes, all you need to do is find the 8th to prove me wrong. If I say testosterone levels cause men to be more assertive, here is an example where that is not the case.

ponow 4y ago
In almost all of these health discussion, assertions generally involve an implicit "on average". So, no, it's not like a mathematical proof, which requires a single counter-example to dismantle. E.g., men are taller than women, is a typical statement that is understood "on average".

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

True! But this story is actually very common on TRT forums. A lot of guys end up on the steroid -> TRT pathway thinking they’re going to become a different person, only to discover that testosterone isn’t the singular driver of masculinity that we’ve been led to believe.