3 ms·

(Brings forth their best George Carlin impersonation) Plastic! ...I mean, my understanding was that the elephant in the room is BPA and microplastics, but mayb

by rzzzt 4y ago

(Brings forth their best George Carlin impersonation) Plastic! ...I mean, my understanding was that the elephant in the room is BPA and microplastics, but maybe all the other factors are not given enough attention.

2-718-281-828 4y ago
in most of asia you have to consume all your water from plastic bottles or canisters. do asians have lower testosterone on average?
rjzzleep 4y ago
I've long been wondering about plastic as well. Plastic wrapped food, plastic packaged food, drinks etc. A lot of these things are actually filled and sealed while warm and then heated in plastic, which means it leaks into the food. A sibling comment commented on all the hormones in dairy and other foods. I remember that there were even issues with the contraceptive pill in wastewater effects on aquatic life. One thing I'd like to know is if the effect on east Asian societies is worse given how much more plastic they use than say European ones. Somewhat unrelated but interesting is the focus on BPA. It is actually not proven that the other plastics are good, it just means we have data on BPA.
TaupeRanger 4y ago
That's not really established by strong evidence. Most of it is cross sectional data without any clinically relevant endpoints. In other words, we have no idea if or how it affects any part of male fertility or testosterone production that humans actually care about. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7304337/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7304337/ Anecdotally, if someone like John Carmack can drink 9 Diet Cokes per day without noticeable ill-effects over several decades, it's going to take strong evidence that he (and others like him) are major outliers in their resistance to BPA "damage" to convince people that a small amount of BPA in their foods and drinks is harmful enough to change their lifestyle and habits to avoid it.
- forgotmypw17 4y ago
  Anytime I read "no established evidence", I think about cigarettes in the 1950s and 1960s.
  - TaupeRanger 4y ago
    Why admit to a logical fallacy on a public forum?
    - forgotmypw17 4y ago
      My logic is that it is advantageous and desirable to use doubt-inducing statements such as "not established strong evidence" to defend profitable but harmful products. Where is the logical fallacy?
      - formerly_proven 4y ago
        Tobacco use being hugely detrimental to health has been known and scientifically published since the 18th century.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - shawnz 4y ago
        It's advantageous to use such language to defend harmless products too?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        forgotmypw17 4y ago
        What is proven harmless that's been covered in this thread?
friedman23 4y ago
I don't want to throw out this idea but I think the much more obvious answer is people being sedentary and terrible sleep. Boys that are playing video games instead of running around outdoors. Playing video games until 3 am one night, waking up for school with 5 hours of sleep, then drinking massive amounts of energy drinks or other stimulants to stay awake.

by rzzzt 4y ago

2-718-281-828 4y ago

in most of asia you have to consume all your water from plastic bottles or canisters. do asians have lower testosterone on average?

rjzzleep 4y ago

I've long been wondering about plastic as well. Plastic wrapped food, plastic packaged food, drinks etc. A lot of these things are actually filled and sealed while warm and then heated in plastic, which means it leaks into the food. A sibling comment commented on all the hormones in dairy and other foods. I remember that there were even issues with the contraceptive pill in wastewater effects on aquatic life. One thing I'd like to know is if the effect on east Asian societies is worse given how much more plastic they use than say European ones. Somewhat unrelated but interesting is the focus on BPA. It is actually not proven that the other plastics are good, it just means we have data on BPA.

TaupeRanger 4y ago

That's not really established by strong evidence. Most of it is cross sectional data without any clinically relevant endpoints. In other words, we have no idea if or how it affects any part of male fertility or testosterone production that humans actually care about. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7304337/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7304337/ Anecdotally, if someone like John Carmack can drink 9 Diet Cokes per day without noticeable ill-effects over several decades, it's going to take strong evidence that he (and others like him) are major outliers in their resistance to BPA "damage" to convince people that a small amount of BPA in their foods and drinks is harmful enough to change their lifestyle and habits to avoid it.

forgotmypw17 4y ago
Anytime I read "no established evidence", I think about cigarettes in the 1950s and 1960s.
- TaupeRanger 4y ago
  Why admit to a logical fallacy on a public forum?
  - forgotmypw17 4y ago
    My logic is that it is advantageous and desirable to use doubt-inducing statements such as "not established strong evidence" to defend profitable but harmful products. Where is the logical fallacy?
    - formerly_proven 4y ago
      Tobacco use being hugely detrimental to health has been known and scientifically published since the 18th century.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - shawnz 4y ago
      It's advantageous to use such language to defend harmless products too?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - forgotmypw17 4y ago
        What is proven harmless that's been covered in this thread?

friedman23 4y ago

I don't want to throw out this idea but I think the much more obvious answer is people being sedentary and terrible sleep. Boys that are playing video games instead of running around outdoors. Playing video games until 3 am one night, waking up for school with 5 hours of sleep, then drinking massive amounts of energy drinks or other stimulants to stay awake.