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No, your understanding isn't quite correct. Many western central banks hold long dated bonds on their balance sheet which they are marking down due to increasin

by loftil 4y ago

No, your understanding isn't quite correct. Many western central banks hold long dated bonds on their balance sheet which they are marking down due to increasing interest rates. Different central banks are dealing with this differently. In the US they are writing IOU s that essentially mean future surpluses will be used to pay back negative equity. The UK Treasury recently wired the BoE a large sum for much the same reason. Essentially, the bonds which were profitable during decreasing interest rates and resulted in central banks paying treasuries are now moving the opposite way.

lottin 4y ago
You're repeating the same nonsense. How can a bond that the central bank got for free make the central bank lose money? Please explain.
- cormacrelf 4y ago
  Central banks care a lot about money supply. They do not want to have to print money to account for a debt on the balance sheet, because that (eventually) devalues the currency they operate, and causes deflation which they regard as bad for the economy. They wish to use the money printer when they choose (and provide maximum effect for its valid use cases), not because they are forced. There is a money printing capacity they do not wish to exhaust. If you printed money to buy a car, but it was only because you had to make a big trip and you had actually been intending to wait for the new model, then that’s a suboptimal use of your money printer. So basically the money printer is not free. There is an opportunity loss that they’ve found a way to measure as a real loss to make it easier.
  - lottin 4y ago
    You got it the other way around. The only reason they buy bonds to increase the money supply. So if they do buy a bond, they will pay with newly created reserves. That's the whole point. And it's impossible to lose money by purchasing an asset that it cost you nothing to buy.
- manholio 4y ago
  The coin the central bank issues is a liability in its balance sheet. If it prints 1 trillion, uses it to buy 1 trillion worth of commercial paper and those assets lose 10%, then the bank has liabilities worth 1 trillion (outstanding currency) but only 900 billion in assets to cover them. Technically in default, but also in a very special economic position, because no body expects the central bank to ever cover its full liabilities.
  - lottin 4y ago
    Central bank reserves are not a liability because they don't entail a financial obligation. They're only listed as a liability on the balance sheet because it's convenient from an accounting perspective. When a central bank buys a bond, they use reserves, which are not a liability in a financial sense, therefore the central bank makes an instant profit. Even if the bond were to lose 80% of its value, the central bank would still make a 20% profit. Bankrupting a central bank is a lot harder than you think.
    - manholio 4y ago
      It's not just "accounting convenience" it's literally the way the profit vs loss of the central bank is defined. The central bank typically has a legal obligation to maintain stable prices, so while outstanding currency is not a liability in the conventional sense with a certain maturity date, interest etc., it's undoubtedly a debt towards society at large, which could presumably need to be redeemed and sterilized in the course of monetary policy, at least in part. Outstanding currency is a perpetual zero interest loan towards the central bank by the holders of currency. If a central bank loses 80% of its real reserves, and financial circumstances arise where it must repurchase more than 20% of it's issued currency, for example to defend the exchange rate against a capital flight, than the bank is effectively "bankrupt" - it can no longer fulfill its legal role and regulate the value of the national currency. It's not a traditional bankruptcy, but it's a de-facto failure which many central banks experienced.
      - lottin 4y ago
        You're stretching the meaning of 'debt' and 'bankruptcy' beyond what these words are generally accepted to mean.

by loftil 4y ago

lottin 4y ago

You're repeating the same nonsense. How can a bond that the central bank got for free make the central bank lose money? Please explain.

cormacrelf 4y ago
Central banks care a lot about money supply. They do not want to have to print money to account for a debt on the balance sheet, because that (eventually) devalues the currency they operate, and causes deflation which they regard as bad for the economy. They wish to use the money printer when they choose (and provide maximum effect for its valid use cases), not because they are forced. There is a money printing capacity they do not wish to exhaust. If you printed money to buy a car, but it was only because you had to make a big trip and you had actually been intending to wait for the new model, then that’s a suboptimal use of your money printer. So basically the money printer is not free. There is an opportunity loss that they’ve found a way to measure as a real loss to make it easier.
- lottin 4y ago
  You got it the other way around. The only reason they buy bonds to increase the money supply. So if they do buy a bond, they will pay with newly created reserves. That's the whole point. And it's impossible to lose money by purchasing an asset that it cost you nothing to buy.
manholio 4y ago
The coin the central bank issues is a liability in its balance sheet. If it prints 1 trillion, uses it to buy 1 trillion worth of commercial paper and those assets lose 10%, then the bank has liabilities worth 1 trillion (outstanding currency) but only 900 billion in assets to cover them. Technically in default, but also in a very special economic position, because no body expects the central bank to ever cover its full liabilities.
- lottin 4y ago
  Central bank reserves are not a liability because they don't entail a financial obligation. They're only listed as a liability on the balance sheet because it's convenient from an accounting perspective. When a central bank buys a bond, they use reserves, which are not a liability in a financial sense, therefore the central bank makes an instant profit. Even if the bond were to lose 80% of its value, the central bank would still make a 20% profit. Bankrupting a central bank is a lot harder than you think.
  - manholio 4y ago
    It's not just "accounting convenience" it's literally the way the profit vs loss of the central bank is defined. The central bank typically has a legal obligation to maintain stable prices, so while outstanding currency is not a liability in the conventional sense with a certain maturity date, interest etc., it's undoubtedly a debt towards society at large, which could presumably need to be redeemed and sterilized in the course of monetary policy, at least in part. Outstanding currency is a perpetual zero interest loan towards the central bank by the holders of currency. If a central bank loses 80% of its real reserves, and financial circumstances arise where it must repurchase more than 20% of it's issued currency, for example to defend the exchange rate against a capital flight, than the bank is effectively "bankrupt" - it can no longer fulfill its legal role and regulate the value of the national currency. It's not a traditional bankruptcy, but it's a de-facto failure which many central banks experienced.
    - lottin 4y ago
      You're stretching the meaning of 'debt' and 'bankruptcy' beyond what these words are generally accepted to mean.