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I like how you link to a post demonstrating your (presumably) "reason based" approach so well that pg had to moderate that discussion (full disclosure: I was pa

by Steko 15y ago

I like how you link to a post demonstrating your (presumably) "reason based" approach so well that pg had to moderate that discussion (full disclosure: I was part of this). Let's be honest about the "faith based" HN approach to declaring Gruber is an evangelist. You just say it, without any evidence or argument and then voila, yousuck up a ton of karma from like minded people. People who doubt me go search daring fireball threads on HN, it happens almost verbatim in every single one. Gruber over the last few years has linked to scores if not hundreds of articles documenting the small ways iOS is more polished. He also frequently links to things that could improve iOS, many of which are in other OS's including Android. Reasonable people might describe that as evidence not faith. Disagree with him? Maybe start your own blog and list scores or hundreds of counterexamples. Surely with all the Android enthusiasts there's many of these already? Say why he's wrong, don't just spout your conclusion.

redthrowaway 15y ago
I take issue with that tactic. "Show me the evidence!" is a worthy battle-cry, and I certainly don't take issue with those who use it, but it's not always applicable in all cases. DF articles are regularly posted on HN, and regularly make the front page. Many of us who read them have noticed a systemic bias in Gruber's writing, such that most everything Apple does is terrific and most everything their competitors do is terrible, or at least not good enough to measure up to Apple. Sure, he gives reasons and arguments, but they're always one-sided. These aren't really the kinds of conclusions one can give evidence for, beyond "read what he writes". Certainly, reasonable people might come away from his articles disagreeing with those of us who think his bias is growing more extreme, and that's fine. It's not, however, useful to say that we're wrong because we "have no evidence". We have the same evidence you do, and we interpret it differently. Put simply, whenever I see a link to daring fireball on HN, I can say with ~ 2σ confidence that it will a) be about Apple or one of its competitors, b) argue that, whatever the issue, Apple Does It Better, and c) have its arguments picked apart in the comments. This has been such a long term trend that it has become thoroughly predictable. That's fine, and Gruber's entitled to write whatever he wants about whatever he wants. That doesn't stop us from labeling him an Apple evangelist, and it doesn't mean we're wrong to do so.
- Steko 15y ago
  Coincidentally whenever I research Mongol battles from the 13th Century the Mongols are kicking ass. I need some less biased history books.
  - cooldeal 15y ago
    Android devices are kicking ass and increasing marketshare percentage every month, whereas Apple is mostly stagnant or growing slowly as a percentage of smartphone sales. Sure you can pull out some metric like "profit derived"(by which Windows Server totally rules the server space over Linux), but ultimately all the predictions by partisan pundits like "Let the iPhone get on Verizon and see Android stagnate completely" have been proven to be partisan BS.
    - GHFigs 15y ago
      "Let the iPhone get on Verizon and see Android stagnate completely" Who are you quoting?
      - Kylekramer 15y ago
        http://www.marco.org/2011/01/12/watts-martin-whos-afraid-of-the-verizon-iphone http://www.marco.org/2011/01/12/watts-martin-whos-afraid-of-... I’m not saying Android is going to be “killed”, or that it will be reduced to a miniscule installed base. Neither are remotely likely. But I think over the next few quarters, it’s going to become far less relevant.
    - Steko 15y ago
      Android devices are kicking ass against dumbphones, RIM, Nokia, old Windows Mobile and new WP 7. It's winning battles Apple isn't even in for the most part. Where Apple competes, this is what you find: (1) Almost everywhere the iPhone is on sale it's #1 (and where available probably #2... and when the new numbers come out will it surprise you if it's also #3 where available?). (2) the iPad is #1 (in a smaller category) by a mile. (3) the iPod Touch is #1 (in a much smaller category) by a mile.

by Steko 15y ago

redthrowaway 15y ago

I take issue with that tactic. "Show me the evidence!" is a worthy battle-cry, and I certainly don't take issue with those who use it, but it's not always applicable in all cases. DF articles are regularly posted on HN, and regularly make the front page. Many of us who read them have noticed a systemic bias in Gruber's writing, such that most everything Apple does is terrific and most everything their competitors do is terrible, or at least not good enough to measure up to Apple. Sure, he gives reasons and arguments, but they're always one-sided. These aren't really the kinds of conclusions one can give evidence for, beyond "read what he writes". Certainly, reasonable people might come away from his articles disagreeing with those of us who think his bias is growing more extreme, and that's fine. It's not, however, useful to say that we're wrong because we "have no evidence". We have the same evidence you do, and we interpret it differently. Put simply, whenever I see a link to daring fireball on HN, I can say with ~ 2σ confidence that it will a) be about Apple or one of its competitors, b) argue that, whatever the issue, Apple Does It Better, and c) have its arguments picked apart in the comments. This has been such a long term trend that it has become thoroughly predictable. That's fine, and Gruber's entitled to write whatever he wants about whatever he wants. That doesn't stop us from labeling him an Apple evangelist, and it doesn't mean we're wrong to do so.

Steko 15y ago
Coincidentally whenever I research Mongol battles from the 13th Century the Mongols are kicking ass. I need some less biased history books.
- cooldeal 15y ago
  Android devices are kicking ass and increasing marketshare percentage every month, whereas Apple is mostly stagnant or growing slowly as a percentage of smartphone sales. Sure you can pull out some metric like "profit derived"(by which Windows Server totally rules the server space over Linux), but ultimately all the predictions by partisan pundits like "Let the iPhone get on Verizon and see Android stagnate completely" have been proven to be partisan BS.
  - GHFigs 15y ago
    "Let the iPhone get on Verizon and see Android stagnate completely" Who are you quoting?
    - Kylekramer 15y ago
      http://www.marco.org/2011/01/12/watts-martin-whos-afraid-of-the-verizon-iphone http://www.marco.org/2011/01/12/watts-martin-whos-afraid-of-... I’m not saying Android is going to be “killed”, or that it will be reduced to a miniscule installed base. Neither are remotely likely. But I think over the next few quarters, it’s going to become far less relevant.
  - Steko 15y ago
    Android devices are kicking ass against dumbphones, RIM, Nokia, old Windows Mobile and new WP 7. It's winning battles Apple isn't even in for the most part. Where Apple competes, this is what you find: (1) Almost everywhere the iPhone is on sale it's #1 (and where available probably #2... and when the new numbers come out will it surprise you if it's also #3 where available?). (2) the iPad is #1 (in a smaller category) by a mile. (3) the iPod Touch is #1 (in a much smaller category) by a mile.