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> My current company spends 4 out of 8 hours every day in meetings. I hate to pull a "no true scottsman", but absolutely nothing about that is being agile. The

> My current company spends 4 out of 8 hours every day in meetings. I hate to pull a "no true scottsman", but absolutely nothing about that is being agile. The manifesto says nothing about cargo culting various ceremonies, in fact quite the opposite.

cowtools 4y ago
bamboozled 4y ago
My experience with Agile has been a little bit meeting heavy though, the rituals etc. It’s a really hard balance to get right and Agile easily ends up turning into a lot of pointless meetings teams feel like they need to have because that’s part of the manifesto they prescribed too. I’ve also found lot of counselling and explaining starts happening when sprints aren’t going well or people become fatigued. We could argue it’s not an Agile problem, like everything it’s susceptible to a lot of problems which we like to gloss over because it’s convenient to do so and those who advocate for agile haven’t bothered to revise and improve on the original manifesto to address these weaknesses. the Agile manifesto is a bit like a bible in that sense.
WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
True, there's a problem with the way it's implemented. But developers rarely have a choice on how PMs manage their projects. Agile just doesn't work for long term projects. It leads to junk code that developers hope they will fix later or long hours for them trying to meet deadlines. A lot of the time it's both.
- koonsolo 4y ago
  If you say "Project Manager", I'm already suspicious that you're actually doing agile. The most popular agile framework scrum doesn't have a project manager role.
  - WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
    I grant you that. I might not have done true scrum. It just emphasizes that developers don't pick how a project is managed. I've worked with a number of implementations. The last one was big enough that it had a top level project manager that coordinated a number of Scrum masters and their teams. The whole process was sort of plugged into the company's existing structure. But the importance of short timelines, constant input, daily standups and on on... Was there. Anyhow, as a developer I'm not a fan. I've seen the results of agile on the code and it's not pretty. Say nothing of the added stress on developers. Managers like to think that software development is linear. A developer should be able to get X amount of work done over a period of time. But as a developer we know that that's not always the case.
ryandvm 4y ago
Agile is like communism in that it never fucking works, and whenever it fails (which it inevitably does), the apologists always say, "well they just weren't doing it right."

cowtools 4y ago

bamboozled 4y ago

My experience with Agile has been a little bit meeting heavy though, the rituals etc. It’s a really hard balance to get right and Agile easily ends up turning into a lot of pointless meetings teams feel like they need to have because that’s part of the manifesto they prescribed too. I’ve also found lot of counselling and explaining starts happening when sprints aren’t going well or people become fatigued. We could argue it’s not an Agile problem, like everything it’s susceptible to a lot of problems which we like to gloss over because it’s convenient to do so and those who advocate for agile haven’t bothered to revise and improve on the original manifesto to address these weaknesses. the Agile manifesto is a bit like a bible in that sense.

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago

True, there's a problem with the way it's implemented. But developers rarely have a choice on how PMs manage their projects. Agile just doesn't work for long term projects. It leads to junk code that developers hope they will fix later or long hours for them trying to meet deadlines. A lot of the time it's both.

koonsolo 4y ago
If you say "Project Manager", I'm already suspicious that you're actually doing agile. The most popular agile framework scrum doesn't have a project manager role.
- WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
  I grant you that. I might not have done true scrum. It just emphasizes that developers don't pick how a project is managed. I've worked with a number of implementations. The last one was big enough that it had a top level project manager that coordinated a number of Scrum masters and their teams. The whole process was sort of plugged into the company's existing structure. But the importance of short timelines, constant input, daily standups and on on... Was there. Anyhow, as a developer I'm not a fan. I've seen the results of agile on the code and it's not pretty. Say nothing of the added stress on developers. Managers like to think that software development is linear. A developer should be able to get X amount of work done over a period of time. But as a developer we know that that's not always the case.

ryandvm 4y ago

Agile is like communism in that it never fucking works, and whenever it fails (which it inevitably does), the apologists always say, "well they just weren't doing it right."