4 ms·

I do think Josh Toposkly overreacted. MG's analogy was not great either, it needed a couple of caveats (see next para). But, Just because a Mercedes is being co

I do think Josh Toposkly overreacted. MG's analogy was not great either, it needed a couple of caveats (see next para). But, Just because a Mercedes is being compared to a Honda doesn't mean that there's some sort of a class issue at stake. Honda is a fantastic engineering company. In terms of drivetrain technology they are right up there with the very best (for lower capacity engines, I'd say they are better than Mercedes, but I digress). However, Mercedes (especially till the early nineties) was about attention to detail, not just the drivetrain, but each and every part that went in, was famously "over-engineered". If I may, my interpretation of the analogy: a. Honda's focus is on the engineering (drivetrain to be specific), they are willing to do an average (nothing special, but not bad) job for the rest of the package. That includes average interiors, average ride quality, average styling etc. b. Mercedes tries (or did try) to do a stellar job in each of those categories listed above. So, if Android is Google's engineering, Google let's Samsung get away with a plasticky phone (I have used the Galaxy nexus for an hour and a half today). Yes, even now the feel of the phone in one's hand is not even comparable to the iPhone 4. But the analogy falls flat because the Galaxy Nexus is more expensive on contract than the iPhone. Price matters, the pricing helps Mercedes devote resources to develop the products the way they do. Gruber, got this wrong too. His own quote "You either see it or you don’t. If you don’t, that’s cool, enjoy your Nexus. " is correct, but it's correct on it's own, not with MGs quote.

atourgates 15y ago
I saw the Mercedes / Honda analogy falling flat in a very different place. If you sit in a $50,000 Mercedes, and can't instantly tell that it's a more refined and luxurious experience than a $20,000 Honda - why the fuck would you buy the Mercedes?
- andrewfelix 15y ago
  Exactly. The Mercedes is not $30,000 better than the Honda. You're paying for status. Why would you do that unless you were making a statement about your salary, position etc?
  - jonknee 15y ago
    I don't think that was the point, I think the point was there is an immediate and obvious difference between Mercedes and Honda. Everyone can notice it, even if they aren't experts on cars or design. > "You either see it or you don’t. If you don’t, that’s cool, enjoy your Nexus. That doesn't happen with a Mercedes and Honda. Not noticing a difference and not wanting to pay for the difference are totally different things.
    - andrewfelix 15y ago
      "Everyone can notice it, even if they aren't experts on cars or design." I'm not so sure about that. I think Siegler's point was that he believes there's a select portion of society that can appreciate the difference between the Mercedes and Honda. That's why Topolsky interprets it(correctly IMO) as a class thing.
      - jonknee 15y ago
        Maybe I'm off, but I think Topolsky interprets it as a class thing because Mercedes are expensive and many people can't afford them. Do you think your average Honda owner would upgrade to a Mercedes if the money was the same? I do.
  - officemonkey 15y ago
    Even if it is $30,000 better than the Honda, some people's requirements differ. I drive a 20-year old Volvo 740 that sits in the garage all week. I use it to run errands on the weekend. It cost me $1,200. On the other hand, if I were doing a lot of driving (more than 1,500 mi/week), I'd opt for the nicest car I could afford. You don't need an iPad if all you're going to do is watch Netflix and read eBooks. Buy the Kindle fire and use that $300 for something important, like your kid's braces. I buy the right tool for the right job. I'll try not to be too disappointed about what snobs think.
andrewfelix 15y ago
I would agree that the reaction was over the top had this been any other pundit/writer that Topolsky was responding to. But this may have been the 'straw that broke the camel's back' for Topolsky. I get the feeling that he's tired of hearing arrogant and dismissive write-ups from these guys. Topolsky's reviews are in depth and well thought out. It would be somewhat frustrating to have someone like Gruber turn around and say "you don't get it" without rationalizing or explaining the point.
Avshalom 15y ago
The analogy also falls flat in that it starts on the assumption that the Galaxy is Honda to the iPhone's Mercedes. It's why analogy is such a terrible for of argument, it's almost impossible to form one without begging the question. Having not used iOS4 or the Galaxy's spin of Android, for all I know Samsung may have produced a Veyron to Apple's Geo Metro and it's a case of Gruber "not being able to see it."
telcodud 15y ago
But the analogy falls flat because the Galaxy Nexus is more expensive on contract than the iPhone. Price matters, the pricing helps Mercedes devote resources to develop the products the way they do. Since no one has corrected this so far, I'll do it: the Galaxy Nexus on sale from Verizon includes 32GB of internal storage, and is offered for the same price as a 32GB iPhone4S. That is, $299 on a new contract. In fact, the Galaxy Nexus can be cheaper on a new contract than the iPhone4S -- see Amazon offering it for $149 for a limited time.

atourgates 15y ago

I saw the Mercedes / Honda analogy falling flat in a very different place. If you sit in a $50,000 Mercedes, and can't instantly tell that it's a more refined and luxurious experience than a $20,000 Honda - why the fuck would you buy the Mercedes?

andrewfelix 15y ago
Exactly. The Mercedes is not $30,000 better than the Honda. You're paying for status. Why would you do that unless you were making a statement about your salary, position etc?
- jonknee 15y ago
  I don't think that was the point, I think the point was there is an immediate and obvious difference between Mercedes and Honda. Everyone can notice it, even if they aren't experts on cars or design. > "You either see it or you don’t. If you don’t, that’s cool, enjoy your Nexus. That doesn't happen with a Mercedes and Honda. Not noticing a difference and not wanting to pay for the difference are totally different things.
  - andrewfelix 15y ago
    "Everyone can notice it, even if they aren't experts on cars or design." I'm not so sure about that. I think Siegler's point was that he believes there's a select portion of society that can appreciate the difference between the Mercedes and Honda. That's why Topolsky interprets it(correctly IMO) as a class thing.
    - jonknee 15y ago
      Maybe I'm off, but I think Topolsky interprets it as a class thing because Mercedes are expensive and many people can't afford them. Do you think your average Honda owner would upgrade to a Mercedes if the money was the same? I do.
- officemonkey 15y ago
  Even if it is $30,000 better than the Honda, some people's requirements differ. I drive a 20-year old Volvo 740 that sits in the garage all week. I use it to run errands on the weekend. It cost me $1,200. On the other hand, if I were doing a lot of driving (more than 1,500 mi/week), I'd opt for the nicest car I could afford. You don't need an iPad if all you're going to do is watch Netflix and read eBooks. Buy the Kindle fire and use that $300 for something important, like your kid's braces. I buy the right tool for the right job. I'll try not to be too disappointed about what snobs think.

andrewfelix 15y ago

I would agree that the reaction was over the top had this been any other pundit/writer that Topolsky was responding to. But this may have been the 'straw that broke the camel's back' for Topolsky. I get the feeling that he's tired of hearing arrogant and dismissive write-ups from these guys. Topolsky's reviews are in depth and well thought out. It would be somewhat frustrating to have someone like Gruber turn around and say "you don't get it" without rationalizing or explaining the point.

Avshalom 15y ago

The analogy also falls flat in that it starts on the assumption that the Galaxy is Honda to the iPhone's Mercedes. It's why analogy is such a terrible for of argument, it's almost impossible to form one without begging the question. Having not used iOS4 or the Galaxy's spin of Android, for all I know Samsung may have produced a Veyron to Apple's Geo Metro and it's a case of Gruber "not being able to see it."

telcodud 15y ago

But the analogy falls flat because the Galaxy Nexus is more expensive on contract than the iPhone. Price matters, the pricing helps Mercedes devote resources to develop the products the way they do. Since no one has corrected this so far, I'll do it: the Galaxy Nexus on sale from Verizon includes 32GB of internal storage, and is offered for the same price as a 32GB iPhone4S. That is, $299 on a new contract. In fact, the Galaxy Nexus can be cheaper on a new contract than the iPhone4S -- see Amazon offering it for $149 for a limited time.