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I’m a long-time cryptocurrency “enthusiast” you might say, but I’ve been out of those circles since Bitcoin was <$1k. I still buy a bit every pay period but don
by Ancapistani 4y ago
I’m a long-time cryptocurrency “enthusiast” you might say, but I’ve been out of those circles since Bitcoin was <$1k. I still buy a bit every pay period but don’t do anything with it other than transfer it to cold storage periodically.
The whole community changed about the time Bitcoin hit $1k. Prior to that there were a lot of idealists around and a handful of “investors”. There were Ponzi schemes, but they were literally labeled “Ponzi schemes”, so no real harm was done. Since then, the proportions have flipped: the vast majority of people are “investors”, there’s a seemingly equal small number of idealists and scammers, and with few exceptions there’s not really anything exciting in the works that I know of.
I miss the old days :(.
FWIW, I still think cryptocurrencies will outlast all existing government-backed fiat currencies. The difference is that I don’t think it’s going to happen on any predictable timeframe.
- terminal_d 4y agoThe Bitcoin SV people are the only idealists left.
- astrange 4y ago> FWIW, I still think cryptocurrencies will outlast all existing government-backed fiat currencies. The difference is that I don’t think it’s going to happen on any predictable timeframe. Nothing about this prediction gives Bitcoin any value. If you/early buyers hoard it all, that means starting a new chain is less effort than buying it from you. There isn’t scarcity here, let alone use value. (Read “blockchain” as “Google Docs spreadsheet” and “Bitcoin wallet” as “spreadsheet cell”.)
- cowtools 4y agoI agree with your first statement about hoarding by early buyers. However, the smug "write-only database meme" is getting a bit old. Cryptocurrencies, and even other crypto-payment systems (e.g. chaumian cash) obviously have different characteristics than centralized money. Come to think of it, you could just mockingly describe any computer program that has structured data as a database. Cryptocurrency has almost nothing to do with databases or storing data. At its core, cryptocurrency is a system of distributing signed transactions that uses hashcash as a sybil-resistance and (order) synchronisation mechanism. Google spreadsheets need not apply. The whole point is that you don't require a single party to sign transactions. The problem that cryptocurrency deals with concerns co-operation between adversarial parties. Centralization leaves you hopping from platform to platform forever.
- xwolfi 4y agoBut this resistance is against a problem it creates: yes if all your stakeholders are anonymous and distributed you cannot trust them, but why not make a network of licensed operators you can trust ? Like I dunno, a savings account with international bank transfers...
- mkleczek 4y agoThe need for trust increases risk. Higher risk is higher cost.
- astrange 4y agoA blockchain is a kind of transaction log, but if you evaluate all the transactions you get a database at the end. A Google Docs spreadsheet also has a transaction log (a CRDT) while you have it open to do the updates. (Well, I assume it does, anyway.) Of course the security models are different, but you could say the log is a dual of the database.
- germandiago 4y agoBitcoin will have value as long as it is exchanged. For example overseas transfers are often abusive.
- suggestion 4y agoThe probability that the Internet and supporting infrastructure remains stable and available in a world in which government fiat, or even just USD, stop existing is virtually zero, rendering cryptocurrency worthless in every sense of the word.
- cowtools 4y agothe cryptocurrencies are not necessarily tied to any specific network infrastructure
- Ancapistani 4y agoSpecific governments - even all existing ones - are likely to fall before electronic networking.
- suggestion 4y agoNot stable, persistent, global networking, which is absolutely mandatory for cryptocurrency to function. Ad hoc local networking may still exist sporadically in a world in which the USD or fiat in general completely collapses, but that's woefully inadequate for supporting cryptocurrency usage. It also completely defeats the point of decentralization and trust less transactions. If an isolated community is ad hoc networking, they are, by definition, centralized, and extremely likely to be a high trust community. It's much more likely they have a far better means of transacting with one another.
- rocket_surgeron 4y ago>I miss the old days :(. There were no "old days". 0.0000001 femtoseconds after the bitcoin white paper dropped describing it, in the first sentence, as a peer-to-peer digital cash replacement the cryptobros descended-- hyping up the "smash the banksters" and "reject the fed" narrative in order to bilk gullible people out of their actual cash. While muttering "arrrrrbitraaaaaaaaaaaaaage" in their sleep, they dreamed of setting up exchanges hoping to out-bankster the banksters at their own game. With a dictionary in their left hand and and a YouTube playlist of investing videos in their right they quickly learned to frame crypto not as a "digital cash" but as a security, an investment, a lifestyle, a social statement, a religion. A crusade. But it has always been, and will always be, a tool for allowing first-movers to scam the information-poor. And I'm saying this as someone who received actual, entire, bitcoins from faucets and mined actual, entire bitcoins on my Radeon HD 6970.
- specialist 4y agoI heard someone from "a16z" describe cryptocurrencies as a "digital asset class". Um, what? That kind of talk flips bozo bits. - I'm pretty sure it was this episode. (Totally not worth listening to.) A Crypto Optimist and a Crypto Skeptic Walk Into a Podcast Studio The Ezra Klein Show https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-ezra-klein-show-2/episode/a-crypto-optimist-and-a-crypto-skeptic-walk-into-a-podcast-studio-87543123 https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-ezra-klein-show-2/episode/...
- lasc4r 4y agoI'm a fan of the ezra klein show, but this is probably the worst episode. I vaguely remember a torrent of nonsense from someone whose job it is to make cryptocurrency sound good with basically no pushback.
- specialist 4y agoAgreed; mosdef. IMHO, the rebuttal episode w/ Dan Olson, 6 months later, was spot on: The Most Thorough Case Against Crypto I've Heard https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-ezra-klein-show-2/episode/the-most-thorough-case-against-crypto-ive-heard-202061742 https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-ezra-klein-show-2/episode/...
- germandiago 4y agobreaking the monopoly of govt-controlled money, one of my dreams.