5 ms·

"Big Tech" is a distraction. They barely even "sell" data; rather, they use it to power platforms where advertisers can target users without learning who they a

"Big Tech" is a distraction. They barely even "sell" data; rather, they use it to power platforms where advertisers can target users without learning who they are. At such a large scale there are obviously exceptions (see: Cambridge Analytica), but directly selling user data is generally not how they make their money. The abuses of the companies you never hear about are orders of magnitude worse. They are plugged into every institution of society you interact with in your daily life, so you essentially can't opt out, and their primary business model is siphoning off sensitive de-anonymized personal data and selling it to anybody willing to pay. It ought to be criminal, and the fact that it isn't just goes to show how captured and neutered our government has become. I assume our legislators' PR focus on "Big Tech" wrt. data privacy is by design. If the American people really understood the true shape of things, there'd be blood in the streets. (I'm not saying "Big Tech" doesn't cause substantial harm, but in my view it's harm of a different sort.)

drdec 4y ago
> The abuses of the companies you never hear about are orders of magnitude worse. > They are plugged into every institution of society you interact with in your daily life, so you essentially can't opt out, and their primary business model is siphoning off sensitive de-anonymized personal data and selling it to anybody willing to pay. This would be much more impactful if you named one of these companies and gave some concrete examples of what they are doing.
- caconym_ 4y ago
  For a start, you should probably read OP's article. I know often HN commenters don't read the article before commenting, and I'm sometimes guilty of this myself, but in this case the linked article offers fairly important context for my comment in the sense that it explicitly names at least one such company and gives concrete examples of what they are doing with your data. For another salient example, check out this article^[1] about cell carriers selling their customers' real-time location data without consent. ^[1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/fcc-issues-wrist-slap-fines-to-carriers-that-sold-your-phone-location-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/fcc-issues-wrist...
trap_goes_hot 4y ago
Very much like a soldier refusing to execute immoral orders, we need the smartest engineers working at these companies to stop implementing such features. As it stands, engineers working in big tech are often celebrated on platforms like HN. Especially the companies that are just creating spying machines, and addictive time-wasters. We outlaw addictive chemical substances, and maybe such tech should also be looked at in similar light. At our company, the use of cell phones is not permitted inside certain manufacturing zones. It's a bit sad to see some of the younger employees being very restless when they can't check their phone every 30 seconds.
- Jensson 4y ago
  > We outlaw addictive chemical substances, and maybe such tech should also be looked at in similar light. Yeah, so the solution is not to convince engineers, but to convince politicians to get laws like GDPR. Trying to convince workers or companies to stop earning money has never worked well.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - trap_goes_hot 4y ago
    Smartest engineers have an abundance of choice as to where they can work. There needs to be a stigma where working on spying tech is frowned upon. >Trying to convince workers or companies to stop earning money has never worked well. I neither said, nor implied it. Please don't put words in my mouth.
- ajb 4y ago
  Once you have more than 100 people - and there are obviously more than 100 "smartest engineers" - solutions of the form "everyone should be ethical enough not to do this, without further incentives" are impractical.
  - trap_goes_hot 4y ago
    The incentive to not work at a company that makes spying tech is already there. It needs to be highlighted at every opportunity.
webmobdev 4y ago
No, BigTech are the biggest data-miners in the industry as they have daily regular and "unrestricted" access to our lives through the devices we use everyday. Thanks to our mobile phones, computers and the internet, they even have insights and personal data from all the other services we use. BigTech also purchases and partners with data brokers. And all of them do sell their data to the government (as the new government data center in Utah highlight, the PRISM program is thriving). BigTech is the most successful privatisation of intelligence gathering in the history of our world, and I'd say even a monument to capitalism. While a triumph for capitalism, this is unfortunately also really bad for us ordinary citizens in a democracy as it upsets the balance of power between the rich and our elected representatives. The last time this happened, and a government fought to correct this balance with them (the British vs the East india Company), the British empire itself crumbled. If left unchecked, I fear history will repeat itself again with our current and sole superpower too.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cscurmudgeon 4y ago
Big Tech will kill old media. Thats why they are gunning for it using dishonest messaging (e.g. "selling data").

drdec 4y ago

> The abuses of the companies you never hear about are orders of magnitude worse. > They are plugged into every institution of society you interact with in your daily life, so you essentially can't opt out, and their primary business model is siphoning off sensitive de-anonymized personal data and selling it to anybody willing to pay. This would be much more impactful if you named one of these companies and gave some concrete examples of what they are doing.

caconym_ 4y ago
For a start, you should probably read OP's article. I know often HN commenters don't read the article before commenting, and I'm sometimes guilty of this myself, but in this case the linked article offers fairly important context for my comment in the sense that it explicitly names at least one such company and gives concrete examples of what they are doing with your data. For another salient example, check out this article^[1] about cell carriers selling their customers' real-time location data without consent. ^[1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/fcc-issues-wrist-slap-fines-to-carriers-that-sold-your-phone-location-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/fcc-issues-wrist...

trap_goes_hot 4y ago

Very much like a soldier refusing to execute immoral orders, we need the smartest engineers working at these companies to stop implementing such features. As it stands, engineers working in big tech are often celebrated on platforms like HN. Especially the companies that are just creating spying machines, and addictive time-wasters. We outlaw addictive chemical substances, and maybe such tech should also be looked at in similar light. At our company, the use of cell phones is not permitted inside certain manufacturing zones. It's a bit sad to see some of the younger employees being very restless when they can't check their phone every 30 seconds.

Jensson 4y ago
> We outlaw addictive chemical substances, and maybe such tech should also be looked at in similar light. Yeah, so the solution is not to convince engineers, but to convince politicians to get laws like GDPR. Trying to convince workers or companies to stop earning money has never worked well.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- trap_goes_hot 4y ago
  Smartest engineers have an abundance of choice as to where they can work. There needs to be a stigma where working on spying tech is frowned upon. >Trying to convince workers or companies to stop earning money has never worked well. I neither said, nor implied it. Please don't put words in my mouth.
ajb 4y ago
Once you have more than 100 people - and there are obviously more than 100 "smartest engineers" - solutions of the form "everyone should be ethical enough not to do this, without further incentives" are impractical.
- trap_goes_hot 4y ago
  The incentive to not work at a company that makes spying tech is already there. It needs to be highlighted at every opportunity.

webmobdev 4y ago

No, BigTech are the biggest data-miners in the industry as they have daily regular and "unrestricted" access to our lives through the devices we use everyday. Thanks to our mobile phones, computers and the internet, they even have insights and personal data from all the other services we use. BigTech also purchases and partners with data brokers. And all of them do sell their data to the government (as the new government data center in Utah highlight, the PRISM program is thriving). BigTech is the most successful privatisation of intelligence gathering in the history of our world, and I'd say even a monument to capitalism. While a triumph for capitalism, this is unfortunately also really bad for us ordinary citizens in a democracy as it upsets the balance of power between the rich and our elected representatives. The last time this happened, and a government fought to correct this balance with them (the British vs the East india Company), the British empire itself crumbled. If left unchecked, I fear history will repeat itself again with our current and sole superpower too.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

cscurmudgeon 4y ago

Big Tech will kill old media. Thats why they are gunning for it using dishonest messaging (e.g. "selling data").