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Is it naïve to think that clinical trials have show that modern medicine is more effective? And the active molecules in those plants have been identified and ca

by jalk 4y ago

Is it naïve to think that clinical trials have show that modern medicine is more effective? And the active molecules in those plants have been identified and can probably in many cases be synthesized more easily than extracted from the plants.

mtrpcic 4y ago
While I think the assessment that modern medicine is more effective, and often stands on the shoulders of these types of historically used plants, not everyone has safe access to modern medicine (either because "modern" medical treatments aren't available where they're located, lack of finances to pay for it in egregiously overpriced areas, or general mistreatment by the medical community). Using alternatives, while not as refined or high quality, is better than nothing.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  Except those alternatives will kill you dead if mishandled. This isn't a choice between "cough medicine" and "slightly less effective cough medicine", it's a choice between a controlled and inspected product and random plants that may or may not be the right genus, dose and concentration.
  - blacksmith_tb 4y ago
    'Wrong Genus' seems to be giving monks and other gardeners less credit than they deserve? Sure, amateurs foraging for wild herbs could make some dangerous mistakes, but if you're intentionally growing a plant it's presumably the right one?
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      Frequently it's not. Seeds can be mislabeled and many plants are extremely difficult to identify reliably, much less grow to have a consistent dose of whatever active ingrediant.
- Cass 4y ago
  In areas so remote that modern medical treatments aren't available at all, people do often still grow their own medical plants. If lack of finances is an issue, growing your own herb garden certainly isn't the solution. These plants aren't going to replace a $500 shot of insulin. At best you could maybe replace the occasional aspirin, dramamine, or buscopan, all of which are available over the counter at price points much lower than what it would cost to even buy a bag of quality seeds, never mind soil, fertilizer, and the garden to plant it all in. (Or the time and labor to plant and tend it).
hosh 4y ago
I don’t think modern medicine has really taken a close look at synergistic effects of combinations of active ingredients. Our bodies are complex living systems, and it’s naive to think that our crude approach to pharmaceuticals — where we treat the body as a complicated, rather than complex system — is working well. Furthermore, this kind of tech requires expertise that is not easily decentralized. As such, it tends centralize power and control of one’s health in a civilization. The civilization needs to educate and produce a few to be able to serve the many, leaving aside the number of tech dependencies in order to produce facilities that produce this, let alone the research organizations to continue studying this stuff. It does not make for a resilient, anti-fragile civilization.
- hosh 4y ago
  It’s also important for people to be able to participate in the well-being of themselves, their family, and their community. A medicine garden allows for such participation, and it’s something we lost when our medicine was industrialized.
tsol 4y ago
Yes and no. If I'm nauseous I can take a little ginger, but there isn't really an comparable over the counter anti-nausea med. There's dimenhydrinate for motion sickness, but that's different. Ondansetron is a prescription only anti-nausea med that's very effective, but obviously much harder to obtain. So modern medicine is more effective, only for the proper indication and when a 'modern' treatment is easily available. Sometimes just grabbing some ginger ale is the smart choice.
- GordonS 4y ago
  I take ginger for sea sickness and motion sickness - it's efficacy is pretty incredible!
- amanaplanacanal 4y ago
  Isn’t that one of the recognized uses for cannabis?
  - Auracle 4y ago
    There are pretty significant “side effects” with that particular medication.
thethirdone 4y ago
I think it would be naive to think that all modern medicine is more effective than herbal counterparts. Our understanding of medicine is not great enough currently to dismiss herbal medicines without investigation. Much of our existing medicines come from scientific study of herbal medicines, and I do not think we have yet fully tapped that source of knowledge. Additionally, I think there are many cases where an herbal medicine is a like 50% effective solution compared to modern medicine, but less than 10% the price. Many doctors may not even be aware of such treatments. One non-herbal but older than modern medicine treatment I am aware of is soaking cuts, punctures, etc in very salty water to disinfect and help it close better. This is exceedingly cheap and helps ensure wounds never get infected.

by jalk 4y ago

mtrpcic 4y ago

While I think the assessment that modern medicine is more effective, and often stands on the shoulders of these types of historically used plants, not everyone has safe access to modern medicine (either because "modern" medical treatments aren't available where they're located, lack of finances to pay for it in egregiously overpriced areas, or general mistreatment by the medical community). Using alternatives, while not as refined or high quality, is better than nothing.

vorpalhex 4y ago
Except those alternatives will kill you dead if mishandled. This isn't a choice between "cough medicine" and "slightly less effective cough medicine", it's a choice between a controlled and inspected product and random plants that may or may not be the right genus, dose and concentration.
- blacksmith_tb 4y ago
  'Wrong Genus' seems to be giving monks and other gardeners less credit than they deserve? Sure, amateurs foraging for wild herbs could make some dangerous mistakes, but if you're intentionally growing a plant it's presumably the right one?
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Frequently it's not. Seeds can be mislabeled and many plants are extremely difficult to identify reliably, much less grow to have a consistent dose of whatever active ingrediant.
Cass 4y ago
In areas so remote that modern medical treatments aren't available at all, people do often still grow their own medical plants. If lack of finances is an issue, growing your own herb garden certainly isn't the solution. These plants aren't going to replace a $500 shot of insulin. At best you could maybe replace the occasional aspirin, dramamine, or buscopan, all of which are available over the counter at price points much lower than what it would cost to even buy a bag of quality seeds, never mind soil, fertilizer, and the garden to plant it all in. (Or the time and labor to plant and tend it).

hosh 4y ago

I don’t think modern medicine has really taken a close look at synergistic effects of combinations of active ingredients. Our bodies are complex living systems, and it’s naive to think that our crude approach to pharmaceuticals — where we treat the body as a complicated, rather than complex system — is working well. Furthermore, this kind of tech requires expertise that is not easily decentralized. As such, it tends centralize power and control of one’s health in a civilization. The civilization needs to educate and produce a few to be able to serve the many, leaving aside the number of tech dependencies in order to produce facilities that produce this, let alone the research organizations to continue studying this stuff. It does not make for a resilient, anti-fragile civilization.

hosh 4y ago
It’s also important for people to be able to participate in the well-being of themselves, their family, and their community. A medicine garden allows for such participation, and it’s something we lost when our medicine was industrialized.

tsol 4y ago

Yes and no. If I'm nauseous I can take a little ginger, but there isn't really an comparable over the counter anti-nausea med. There's dimenhydrinate for motion sickness, but that's different. Ondansetron is a prescription only anti-nausea med that's very effective, but obviously much harder to obtain. So modern medicine is more effective, only for the proper indication and when a 'modern' treatment is easily available. Sometimes just grabbing some ginger ale is the smart choice.

GordonS 4y ago
I take ginger for sea sickness and motion sickness - it's efficacy is pretty incredible!
amanaplanacanal 4y ago
Isn’t that one of the recognized uses for cannabis?
- Auracle 4y ago
  There are pretty significant “side effects” with that particular medication.

thethirdone 4y ago

I think it would be naive to think that all modern medicine is more effective than herbal counterparts. Our understanding of medicine is not great enough currently to dismiss herbal medicines without investigation. Much of our existing medicines come from scientific study of herbal medicines, and I do not think we have yet fully tapped that source of knowledge. Additionally, I think there are many cases where an herbal medicine is a like 50% effective solution compared to modern medicine, but less than 10% the price. Many doctors may not even be aware of such treatments. One non-herbal but older than modern medicine treatment I am aware of is soaking cuts, punctures, etc in very salty water to disinfect and help it close better. This is exceedingly cheap and helps ensure wounds never get infected.