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Wonder where hylang would fit in this classification: exo-lisp, practical-lisp or fluchtpunkt-lisp? I intend to learn lisp, but keep delaying the time investmen

by Qem 4y ago

Wonder where hylang would fit in this classification: exo-lisp, practical-lisp or fluchtpunkt-lisp? I intend to learn lisp, but keep delaying the time investment, waiting for hylang to get a better beginner-friendly tooling setup. So far it seems step 0 in learning hylang (and most lisps) is to learn emacs first, and how to configure it, what causes unecessary friction for would-be apprentices, as this recently asked stackoverflow question shows: https://stackoverflow.com/q/74409462 https://stackoverflow.com/q/74409462 One thing I enjoyed in the smalltalks is that they share a lot of lisp power, but the tooling is more self-contained and integral to most of them, what makes the first steps really easy to take. As Seymour Papert stated the ideal, "low threshold, no ceiling."

Jtsummers 4y ago
No need for emacs, Vim and VS Code support many lisps well (or well enough). You can also use DrRacket for Racket and Scheme learning (https://racket-lang.org/ https://racket-lang.org/).
- Qem 4y ago
  It's my plan-B. But as I already use python at work, hylang would allow me to tap in the same ecosystem, making it immediately useful, at least in my particular circumstances.
mumblemumble 4y ago
I would call it an exolisp. Its very pointed use case is to enhance Python with better metaprogramming facilities. It's often compared to Clojure, but Hy's own documentation often uses Clojure as a contrasting example that reinforces this perspective. Clojure is built on top of Java, but the integration is somewhat loose in that Java semantics don't always map cleanly to Clojure semantics. Hy, on the other hand, deliberately stays very, very close to Python's semantics, even when that means making significant departures from how things are typically done in a lisp.
vindarel 4y ago
FYI you can call Python from CL: https://github.com/bendudson/py4cl https://github.com/bendudson/py4cl and CL from Python: https://github.com/marcoheisig/cl4py/ https://github.com/marcoheisig/cl4py/ If you don't know Emacs, see other editors: https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.html https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht... If you want the more Smalltalk-like experience I'd go with the free LispWorks version: it has many GUI panes that allow to watch and discover the state of the program. I personally couldn't stay long with Hylang. You won't get CL niceties: more language features, performance, standalone binaries, interactive debugger (all the niceties of an image-based development)…

by Qem 4y ago

Jtsummers 4y ago

No need for emacs, Vim and VS Code support many lisps well (or well enough). You can also use DrRacket for Racket and Scheme learning (https://racket-lang.org/ https://racket-lang.org/).

Qem 4y ago
It's my plan-B. But as I already use python at work, hylang would allow me to tap in the same ecosystem, making it immediately useful, at least in my particular circumstances.

mumblemumble 4y ago

I would call it an exolisp. Its very pointed use case is to enhance Python with better metaprogramming facilities. It's often compared to Clojure, but Hy's own documentation often uses Clojure as a contrasting example that reinforces this perspective. Clojure is built on top of Java, but the integration is somewhat loose in that Java semantics don't always map cleanly to Clojure semantics. Hy, on the other hand, deliberately stays very, very close to Python's semantics, even when that means making significant departures from how things are typically done in a lisp.

vindarel 4y ago

FYI you can call Python from CL: https://github.com/bendudson/py4cl https://github.com/bendudson/py4cl and CL from Python: https://github.com/marcoheisig/cl4py/ https://github.com/marcoheisig/cl4py/ If you don't know Emacs, see other editors: https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.html https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook/editor-support.ht... If you want the more Smalltalk-like experience I'd go with the free LispWorks version: it has many GUI panes that allow to watch and discover the state of the program. I personally couldn't stay long with Hylang. You won't get CL niceties: more language features, performance, standalone binaries, interactive debugger (all the niceties of an image-based development)…