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Well then hopefully tech people will soon wrap their head around the fact that political problems are best solved politically. You can't write tech that overrid

by _8j50 4y ago

Well then hopefully tech people will soon wrap their head around the fact that political problems are best solved politically. You can't write tech that overrides the authority of governments but you can override or change governments.

denton-scratch 4y ago
> You can't write tech that overrides the authority of governments Really? Tor springs to mind.
- _8j50 4y ago
  Same. What's your point? VPNs also bypass government blocks. It's a cat and mouse game, they block vpns and guards as they see fit when they have a good reason to. Look at tor, if a country tls decrypts everything and blocks connections that can't be decrypted can it still bypass their blocks? Just because not every government is doing it does not mean Tor can't be blocked. Hell, countries allow-list connections to allowed sites if they want. Breaking their laws may make you feel edgy but that sort of "revolution exporting" many in other countries consider it a form of neo-colonialism where you undermine their sovreignity and self-determination.
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    You're right; ultimately, if you have total power, you can just block the internet.
  - mindslight 4y ago
    > many in other countries consider it a form of neo-colonialism where you undermine their sovreignity and self-determination. Only if by "their" you mean the ruling class, and by "self-determination" you mean their ability to control others. You can't really say their opinions represent the will of the people, especially when it's the people themselves ultimately choosing to engage in "illegal" activities. And sure, "the will of the people" bakes in two very western individual/collectivist values. But as I get older I'm learning to not play the relativism card as much. We should certainly be critical of our culture - but to the point of making it better, not handicapping its spread. Plus there's still a very easy answer for the poor oppressed tyrant who doesn't like freedom of communication - shut down all Internet connections.
    - _8j50 4y ago
      The will of the people is relevant only in a democracy. The neocolonialism part is when you force it in a foreign country. There is absolutley nothing superior or special about democracy. If the people of a country through whatever self-determined means acheive democracy then so be it. The thing people like you don't seem to understand is that individualism is a very western thing, this idea that the individual's will is where a government derives its power from is a very new and western experiment(relatively speaking). Take a look at Iran, they are religious as a nation. Their religion supersedes any individual's will. Or china, the will if the party supersedes individuals' needs. You in your post-colonialist luxury worry about your own will but historically people worry about the well being of their children and society which means not getting killed/raped, having economic and academic opportunities,etc... and beyonf that also, the will of their god being implemented. Which people? The people with weapons just like in a democracy (else the US would still be under a monarchy). They self determined through violence and politics the state they are in. In China the economy is good so the CCP is actually popular, so they self-determined communism (at least by name). There many countries where the US exported a revolution or a democracy and they are in shambles now (who cares so long as they are under western influence?) name one nation in europe that was did not prosper under a monarch before self-determining democracy? Yet your arrogant presumption robbed many nations of that opportunity. Because the people are unprepared and uninformed, the loudest asshole takes power by deceiving people and saying the right things the he gets super rich until they protest and he flies off with his money until the next asshole. This keeps happening and is your direct responsibility since it is because of your will your politicians are exporting chaos and installing puppet leaders in other countries. Civil war after civil war, genocide after genocide because humans are tribal by nature and there is no peaceful way a ruling tribe (see iraq) would peacefully let go of power. Keep in mind that if it wasn't for the threat of violence by your own country's military you also would be part taker in the voiolence and chaos you are exporting. Democracies cannot thrive when people are starving, destitute and uneducated and lack basic infrastructure by which they can be informed enough to critically analyze what their politicians are saying. "Your life sucks because of $tribe" does that sound familiar? So you organize a revolt over Tor, I guess the other side will also use Tor to organize the civil war or genocide?

by _8j50 4y ago

denton-scratch 4y ago

> You can't write tech that overrides the authority of governments Really? Tor springs to mind.

_8j50 4y ago
Same. What's your point? VPNs also bypass government blocks. It's a cat and mouse game, they block vpns and guards as they see fit when they have a good reason to. Look at tor, if a country tls decrypts everything and blocks connections that can't be decrypted can it still bypass their blocks? Just because not every government is doing it does not mean Tor can't be blocked. Hell, countries allow-list connections to allowed sites if they want. Breaking their laws may make you feel edgy but that sort of "revolution exporting" many in other countries consider it a form of neo-colonialism where you undermine their sovreignity and self-determination.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  You're right; ultimately, if you have total power, you can just block the internet.
- mindslight 4y ago
  > many in other countries consider it a form of neo-colonialism where you undermine their sovreignity and self-determination. Only if by "their" you mean the ruling class, and by "self-determination" you mean their ability to control others. You can't really say their opinions represent the will of the people, especially when it's the people themselves ultimately choosing to engage in "illegal" activities. And sure, "the will of the people" bakes in two very western individual/collectivist values. But as I get older I'm learning to not play the relativism card as much. We should certainly be critical of our culture - but to the point of making it better, not handicapping its spread. Plus there's still a very easy answer for the poor oppressed tyrant who doesn't like freedom of communication - shut down all Internet connections.
  - _8j50 4y ago
    The will of the people is relevant only in a democracy. The neocolonialism part is when you force it in a foreign country. There is absolutley nothing superior or special about democracy. If the people of a country through whatever self-determined means acheive democracy then so be it. The thing people like you don't seem to understand is that individualism is a very western thing, this idea that the individual's will is where a government derives its power from is a very new and western experiment(relatively speaking). Take a look at Iran, they are religious as a nation. Their religion supersedes any individual's will. Or china, the will if the party supersedes individuals' needs. You in your post-colonialist luxury worry about your own will but historically people worry about the well being of their children and society which means not getting killed/raped, having economic and academic opportunities,etc... and beyonf that also, the will of their god being implemented. Which people? The people with weapons just like in a democracy (else the US would still be under a monarchy). They self determined through violence and politics the state they are in. In China the economy is good so the CCP is actually popular, so they self-determined communism (at least by name). There many countries where the US exported a revolution or a democracy and they are in shambles now (who cares so long as they are under western influence?) name one nation in europe that was did not prosper under a monarch before self-determining democracy? Yet your arrogant presumption robbed many nations of that opportunity. Because the people are unprepared and uninformed, the loudest asshole takes power by deceiving people and saying the right things the he gets super rich until they protest and he flies off with his money until the next asshole. This keeps happening and is your direct responsibility since it is because of your will your politicians are exporting chaos and installing puppet leaders in other countries. Civil war after civil war, genocide after genocide because humans are tribal by nature and there is no peaceful way a ruling tribe (see iraq) would peacefully let go of power. Keep in mind that if it wasn't for the threat of violence by your own country's military you also would be part taker in the voiolence and chaos you are exporting. Democracies cannot thrive when people are starving, destitute and uneducated and lack basic infrastructure by which they can be informed enough to critically analyze what their politicians are saying. "Your life sucks because of $tribe" does that sound familiar? So you organize a revolt over Tor, I guess the other side will also use Tor to organize the civil war or genocide?