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> And doesn't it still hold the promise of a parallel peer-to-peer non-inflationary currency, suitable for self-custody, which is totally orthogonal to the melt

> And doesn't it still hold the promise of a parallel peer-to-peer non-inflationary currency, suitable for self-custody, which is totally orthogonal to the meltdown of a cryptoexchange? The meltdown of FTX is not orthogonal to bitcoin, it's an outright vulnerability of the system. You can't have a crypto exchange crash without underlying crypto tokens, period. If you're going to argue the merits of the design of crypto protocols, you must also acknowledge the failure to address this system of recklessness that drove the price of Bitcoin to astronomical heights only to crash. The trustless nature of cryptocurrencies makes them susceptible to manipulation and there's nothing anyone can really do to mitigate that once it happens.

azangru 4y ago
> system of recklessness that drove the price of Bitcoin to astronomical heights only to crash. I am probably going to sound extremely naive and uneducated; but when we say "price of Bitcoin", don't we normally mean its value relative to fiat currencies? And isn't it true that our regular fiat currencies are inherently inflationary, and thus not a good long-term storage of value? Wouldn't the lack of trust in fiat currencies drive the price of Bitcoin too?
- thr0wawayf00 4y ago
  Yes, fiat currencies are inflationary and not a good long-term storage of value. > Wouldn't the lack of trust in fiat currencies drive the price of Bitcoin too? Only if the market believed that bitcoin is safer than fiat currency (which it's not). This is one aspect of the hyperinflation argument that gets overlooked. In order to have a hyperinflationary event, there must be an inherently more stable storage of value that everyone is trying to migrate to, which drives the value of the hyperinflated currency down. As it stands, fiat currencies are still way more trustworthy than crypto, primarily because crypto markets itself as a currency while being traded like a speculative asset. Currencies need to be stable in order to be trusted, bitcoin is not.
stiltzkin 4y ago
Bitcoin was not created to run with CEX, blockchains as Bitcoin, Monero or Ethereum are built to run decentralized.
- thr0wawayf00 4y ago
  And there's no mechanism in place to prevent corporate centralization from being built atop those blockchains. It doesn't matter what they we or were not created to do, it's that the flexibility permitted within them exposes them to this kind of problem.
brigandish 4y ago
> You can't have a crypto exchange crash without underlying crypto tokens, period. It seems like it's missing a word to me: without underlying crypto tokens what? Being used, getting lost, being stolen. If they're just there then I don't understand.

azangru 4y ago

> system of recklessness that drove the price of Bitcoin to astronomical heights only to crash. I am probably going to sound extremely naive and uneducated; but when we say "price of Bitcoin", don't we normally mean its value relative to fiat currencies? And isn't it true that our regular fiat currencies are inherently inflationary, and thus not a good long-term storage of value? Wouldn't the lack of trust in fiat currencies drive the price of Bitcoin too?

thr0wawayf00 4y ago
Yes, fiat currencies are inflationary and not a good long-term storage of value. > Wouldn't the lack of trust in fiat currencies drive the price of Bitcoin too? Only if the market believed that bitcoin is safer than fiat currency (which it's not). This is one aspect of the hyperinflation argument that gets overlooked. In order to have a hyperinflationary event, there must be an inherently more stable storage of value that everyone is trying to migrate to, which drives the value of the hyperinflated currency down. As it stands, fiat currencies are still way more trustworthy than crypto, primarily because crypto markets itself as a currency while being traded like a speculative asset. Currencies need to be stable in order to be trusted, bitcoin is not.

stiltzkin 4y ago

Bitcoin was not created to run with CEX, blockchains as Bitcoin, Monero or Ethereum are built to run decentralized.

thr0wawayf00 4y ago
And there's no mechanism in place to prevent corporate centralization from being built atop those blockchains. It doesn't matter what they we or were not created to do, it's that the flexibility permitted within them exposes them to this kind of problem.

brigandish 4y ago

> You can't have a crypto exchange crash without underlying crypto tokens, period. It seems like it's missing a word to me: without underlying crypto tokens what? Being used, getting lost, being stolen. If they're just there then I don't understand.