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Where's the value in crypto? What's the purpose? Decentralisation? Democratisation? And then you have to use wallets, exchanges... There's literally no value in

Where's the value in crypto? What's the purpose? Decentralisation? Democratisation? And then you have to use wallets, exchanges... There's literally no value in crypto currency, but trust. Like plain old money, which is highly regulated, so much more stability to use it in real economy. So why should I use crypto currencies? And which one, given that everyone can create their crypto currency?

sho_hn 4y ago
Crypto is a decade-long exercise in teaching programmers why the mechanism used to update numbers in databases is the boring part of a money system, and why governance, policy-making and physical territory control are relevant. What it really does is highlight inadequacies in education and discourse, and how intransparent "how things really work" (and by extension, what the tough problems are) can be even to intelligent people.
- jqpabc123 4y ago
  Bottom line: Technology is just a tool and an ineffective substitute for the human aspects of "society". Those who tend to think otherwise may be highly trained but still rather naive, under-educated and operating outside their element --- ideal marks for a good con artist.
MangoCoffee 4y ago
banking started 2000 BCE according to wikipeida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking FDIC put people at ease about putting their money in bank. banking regulations created over years to protect people's money. crypto bros preach about decentralized. what can go wrong?
zimbatm 4y ago
Have you ever tried sending money abroad? With BTC/ETH/USDC it takes seconds. The whole process is entirely transparent. It doesn't get blocked if you reach some threshold. And the fees are smaller than with the traditional banking system. And unlike with banks, anybody is allowed to open a new wallet. You don't have to get approval, which is difficult if you live in the streets or in a 3rd-world country. I'm not endorsing the rest of crypto but having a trusted and transparent ledger for large transactions is nice.
- Denisos 4y ago
  i totally agree
- randomsearch 4y ago
  I am skeptical of all the crypto schemes, and this is the only use case I find convincing. The small producer in China is paid by the American company via a digital currency. Faster, easier, cheaper. Continued use of such a medium could over the long-term conceivably lead to widespread adoption, regulation, and a global currency. Fiat is disadvantaged when transactions cross borders. I think we'll look back on this period as a painful learning process, which will set back such a digital currency by years. Perhaps it is inevitable, though, that some people will in the short-term exploit such situations for personal gain at the expense of the rest of us. Now we have to sort out the mess and wait. It seems that both in the adtech (Facebook etc.) and crypto spaces, our industry has disgraced itself. We are at an incredible moment in history when our skills are pivotal - we're building the infrastructure of the modern world. We need to use our skills to improve things. The most obvious way to improve the situation is to carefully choose who we work for.
- dragandj 4y ago
  At first I was excited to hear more about the process of “sending money” you had mentioned, but then I read your post, and realized that there weren’t any money involved, but “BTC/ETH/USD”...
  - zimbatm 4y ago
    How is that not the same thing? If you can reliably exchange it from one to the other?
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  Not sure about the others, but it takes a very long time to send Bitcoin (tens of minutes) if you care about waiting for one or more confirming blocks which most people do.
  - 4y ago
legutierr 4y ago
Here are three things that are extremely valuable about blockchain technology: * Financial infrastructure that is transparent and does not rely on corporate CEOs being honest: Enron, Lehman Brothers, and now FTX have shown that global regulators cannot be trusted to protect ordinary people when institutions are corrupted from the top. DeFi markets are fully transparent—with code and data being open and replicated thousands of times over—and users maintain custody of their assets at all times. * Instantaneous settlement for payments and trades: With blockchain tech, vendors and merchants don't need to wait for credit-card payments to be deposited in their bank accounts—tokens are transferred in real-time. Traders don't need to wait for the proceeds of their sale to be wired to them two days after the trade takes place—settlement happens instantaneously with each DeFi trade. In some developed parts of the world, these settlement delays are slowly being fixed, but blockchain technology does this out of the box, today, and works everywhere. * Security and automatic transfer of lending collateral: Overcollateralized DeFi loans hold collateral on-chain, and will instantly liquidate any outstanding loan that dips below the collateralization ratio. This is one reason that even through all the recent turbulence in crypto markets no one who leant money through DeFi on an overcollateralized basis—including, for instance, to Celsius—has lost money. (Note however that the courts have not yet ruled as to the disposition of these DeFi loans in bankruptcy cases.) I think it's also important to differentiate between "crypto" and "blockchains". Cryptocurrencies are a type of application that can run on blockchains, and they play an important role by creating a unified market to reimburse providers for delivering the computation and storage services that blockchains depend upon. I would agree with those that believe that they have been overhyped, however.
- Nursie 4y ago
  The point made in this article applies to your first point - companies like FTX playing fast and loose can tank your value even if you are playing as your own bank. Not using their custody doesn’t fully protect you from their actions. Cryptocurrency does not settle instantaneously, in fact credit cards are usually faster. Nobody is “waiting” for settlement. The transaction is done very fast. Defi collateralised loans have actually had several instances of losing money and whole schemes failing - ‘whales’ holding illiquid assets have taken out massive loans with no intention of repaying, and the collateral is sometimes only “over” on paper.

sho_hn 4y ago

Crypto is a decade-long exercise in teaching programmers why the mechanism used to update numbers in databases is the boring part of a money system, and why governance, policy-making and physical territory control are relevant. What it really does is highlight inadequacies in education and discourse, and how intransparent "how things really work" (and by extension, what the tough problems are) can be even to intelligent people.

jqpabc123 4y ago
Bottom line: Technology is just a tool and an ineffective substitute for the human aspects of "society". Those who tend to think otherwise may be highly trained but still rather naive, under-educated and operating outside their element --- ideal marks for a good con artist.

MangoCoffee 4y ago

banking started 2000 BCE according to wikipeida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_banking FDIC put people at ease about putting their money in bank. banking regulations created over years to protect people's money. crypto bros preach about decentralized. what can go wrong?

zimbatm 4y ago

Have you ever tried sending money abroad? With BTC/ETH/USDC it takes seconds. The whole process is entirely transparent. It doesn't get blocked if you reach some threshold. And the fees are smaller than with the traditional banking system. And unlike with banks, anybody is allowed to open a new wallet. You don't have to get approval, which is difficult if you live in the streets or in a 3rd-world country. I'm not endorsing the rest of crypto but having a trusted and transparent ledger for large transactions is nice.

Denisos 4y ago
i totally agree
randomsearch 4y ago
I am skeptical of all the crypto schemes, and this is the only use case I find convincing. The small producer in China is paid by the American company via a digital currency. Faster, easier, cheaper. Continued use of such a medium could over the long-term conceivably lead to widespread adoption, regulation, and a global currency. Fiat is disadvantaged when transactions cross borders. I think we'll look back on this period as a painful learning process, which will set back such a digital currency by years. Perhaps it is inevitable, though, that some people will in the short-term exploit such situations for personal gain at the expense of the rest of us. Now we have to sort out the mess and wait. It seems that both in the adtech (Facebook etc.) and crypto spaces, our industry has disgraced itself. We are at an incredible moment in history when our skills are pivotal - we're building the infrastructure of the modern world. We need to use our skills to improve things. The most obvious way to improve the situation is to carefully choose who we work for.
dragandj 4y ago
At first I was excited to hear more about the process of “sending money” you had mentioned, but then I read your post, and realized that there weren’t any money involved, but “BTC/ETH/USD”...
- zimbatm 4y ago
  How is that not the same thing? If you can reliably exchange it from one to the other?
School-Cotton 4y ago
Not sure about the others, but it takes a very long time to send Bitcoin (tens of minutes) if you care about waiting for one or more confirming blocks which most people do.
- 4y ago

legutierr 4y ago

Here are three things that are extremely valuable about blockchain technology: * Financial infrastructure that is transparent and does not rely on corporate CEOs being honest: Enron, Lehman Brothers, and now FTX have shown that global regulators cannot be trusted to protect ordinary people when institutions are corrupted from the top. DeFi markets are fully transparent—with code and data being open and replicated thousands of times over—and users maintain custody of their assets at all times. * Instantaneous settlement for payments and trades: With blockchain tech, vendors and merchants don't need to wait for credit-card payments to be deposited in their bank accounts—tokens are transferred in real-time. Traders don't need to wait for the proceeds of their sale to be wired to them two days after the trade takes place—settlement happens instantaneously with each DeFi trade. In some developed parts of the world, these settlement delays are slowly being fixed, but blockchain technology does this out of the box, today, and works everywhere. * Security and automatic transfer of lending collateral: Overcollateralized DeFi loans hold collateral on-chain, and will instantly liquidate any outstanding loan that dips below the collateralization ratio. This is one reason that even through all the recent turbulence in crypto markets no one who leant money through DeFi on an overcollateralized basis—including, for instance, to Celsius—has lost money. (Note however that the courts have not yet ruled as to the disposition of these DeFi loans in bankruptcy cases.) I think it's also important to differentiate between "crypto" and "blockchains". Cryptocurrencies are a type of application that can run on blockchains, and they play an important role by creating a unified market to reimburse providers for delivering the computation and storage services that blockchains depend upon. I would agree with those that believe that they have been overhyped, however.

Nursie 4y ago
The point made in this article applies to your first point - companies like FTX playing fast and loose can tank your value even if you are playing as your own bank. Not using their custody doesn’t fully protect you from their actions. Cryptocurrency does not settle instantaneously, in fact credit cards are usually faster. Nobody is “waiting” for settlement. The transaction is done very fast. Defi collateralised loans have actually had several instances of losing money and whole schemes failing - ‘whales’ holding illiquid assets have taken out massive loans with no intention of repaying, and the collateral is sometimes only “over” on paper.