4 ms·

This is something I'm also struggling with. Feels like self host is the only way to go otherwise your server admins decide whatever you can see or not. That's

This is something I'm also struggling with. Feels like self host is the only way to go otherwise your server admins decide whatever you can see or not. That's why I think if you don't self host the first server choice ("choose whatever you want it doens't matter") is extremely downplayed. Instances can block each other and if you end up on a "wrong one" (the peer pressure to avoid guilt by association is really really strong if you look around) then you have to move around, your name changes etc.

bawolff 4y ago
Although i think that's what most people want. One of the reasons centralization won out for email is dealing with spam can be absolutely exhausting, so gmail started to look really attractive for the average user.
- ilyt 4y ago
  Yeah but in case of e-mail all it takes for you to "own" your identity is to own your domain at few bucks a year. Bit more work with setting up mastodon instance and dealing with all that mess. I do wonder how mastodon would handle influx of spammers. There is zero barrier to entry, and banning servers is ineffective if it is just an account doing the spamming.
  - scrollaway 4y ago
    More mastodon and mastodon-like hosts should allow for custom domain names. Then it would allow you to own your AP identity similarly to email.
    - elsjaako 4y ago
      That's just hosting your own, basically. You can pay someone to do that for you.
  - dsr_ 4y ago
    Banning a server because it won't shut down a spammer is effective. A server that doesn't take responsibility for its users will soon find itself shouting into the void... as long as enough admins react. Gmail is the largest source of spam because other mail systems won't ban it because it's too big.
    - ilyt 4y ago
      Sooo the server is banned, problematic users move off it coz they can't get anything from outside on it and... move on How that helps ? It just makes impossible for small server admin to take vacation...
      - dsr_ 4y ago
        Small server admin should not have open enrollment. Start friends-only. Quite possibly stay friends-only. When comfortable, change to friends-of-friends. And if you're going to grow past being comfortable with everyone on your server, have a backup admin you trust.
- oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
  This is why I think a big player needs to get involved. As soon as Google hosts a Mastodon instance, that will ease the entry for a lot of people.
  - elsjaako 4y ago
    I don't think that would be a good thing. Google used to host the biggest xmpp server (google talk), and then they defederated from the rest of the network.
  - mftrhu 4y ago
    An instance set up by Google would be likely de-federated on the next day, and it would be a good thing.
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      People always complain that MS does the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish model but they never remember or refuse to acknowledge that a lot of these other big tech companies have and continue to do that the same thing XMPP is but one of many protocols that were adopted by Big Tech, then once market share was achieved they took their users and walked away from the open internet
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    Or Twitter joins the Fediverse.....
  - rakoo 4y ago
    How exactly is it hard to enter the fediverse ? Yes, you need to spend time to understand what you're going into, to understand the lingo, the rules, the etiquette. But it's normal, because Mastodon is not Twitter2, the fediverse is not the usual social networks. It's a new world, you have to understand why it's different. If Google ever speaks AP I won't be surprised to see it defederated from many instances. It will create a schism, and that's perfectly ok because the expectations are different.
    - 4y ago
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  A big deal was that a good Gmail client was available early on Android, and that you would basically get a gmail address set up for you ? (I wonder if Google didn't allow, feature-wise, for other email clients to work as well on Android ? I know that instant messengers have issues like that...)
lupire 4y ago
Name changes are a fact of life. You need a secondary link to your friends (email, phone, other server) so you can notify them when one of your vertices is taken down or another is added.

bawolff 4y ago

Although i think that's what most people want. One of the reasons centralization won out for email is dealing with spam can be absolutely exhausting, so gmail started to look really attractive for the average user.

ilyt 4y ago
Yeah but in case of e-mail all it takes for you to "own" your identity is to own your domain at few bucks a year. Bit more work with setting up mastodon instance and dealing with all that mess. I do wonder how mastodon would handle influx of spammers. There is zero barrier to entry, and banning servers is ineffective if it is just an account doing the spamming.
- scrollaway 4y ago
  More mastodon and mastodon-like hosts should allow for custom domain names. Then it would allow you to own your AP identity similarly to email.
  - elsjaako 4y ago
    That's just hosting your own, basically. You can pay someone to do that for you.
- dsr_ 4y ago
  Banning a server because it won't shut down a spammer is effective. A server that doesn't take responsibility for its users will soon find itself shouting into the void... as long as enough admins react. Gmail is the largest source of spam because other mail systems won't ban it because it's too big.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    Sooo the server is banned, problematic users move off it coz they can't get anything from outside on it and... move on How that helps ? It just makes impossible for small server admin to take vacation...
    - dsr_ 4y ago
      Small server admin should not have open enrollment. Start friends-only. Quite possibly stay friends-only. When comfortable, change to friends-of-friends. And if you're going to grow past being comfortable with everyone on your server, have a backup admin you trust.
oneeyedpigeon 4y ago
This is why I think a big player needs to get involved. As soon as Google hosts a Mastodon instance, that will ease the entry for a lot of people.
- elsjaako 4y ago
  I don't think that would be a good thing. Google used to host the biggest xmpp server (google talk), and then they defederated from the rest of the network.
- mftrhu 4y ago
  An instance set up by Google would be likely de-federated on the next day, and it would be a good thing.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    People always complain that MS does the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish model but they never remember or refuse to acknowledge that a lot of these other big tech companies have and continue to do that the same thing XMPP is but one of many protocols that were adopted by Big Tech, then once market share was achieved they took their users and walked away from the open internet
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  Or Twitter joins the Fediverse.....
- rakoo 4y ago
  How exactly is it hard to enter the fediverse ? Yes, you need to spend time to understand what you're going into, to understand the lingo, the rules, the etiquette. But it's normal, because Mastodon is not Twitter2, the fediverse is not the usual social networks. It's a new world, you have to understand why it's different. If Google ever speaks AP I won't be surprised to see it defederated from many instances. It will create a schism, and that's perfectly ok because the expectations are different.
  - 4y ago
BlueTemplar 4y ago
A big deal was that a good Gmail client was available early on Android, and that you would basically get a gmail address set up for you ? (I wonder if Google didn't allow, feature-wise, for other email clients to work as well on Android ? I know that instant messengers have issues like that...)

lupire 4y ago

Name changes are a fact of life. You need a secondary link to your friends (email, phone, other server) so you can notify them when one of your vertices is taken down or another is added.