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> Reports on crypto Twitter are that this is a hack Is that based on some evidence, or is it speculation?

jmathai 4y ago
Greed drives all of us to do things we normally wouldn’t. Given the nature of crypto, unless there’s a good reason to have the FTX app (say as opposed to using their website), then uninstalling it seems like very sound advice.
zeven7 4y ago
I reworded things to separate the first hand information (FTX_Official indicating they don't know what's going on) from speculation (app hacker rumors).
- ackbar03 4y ago
  I saw an update on coindesk that they confirmed it was a hack on their official telegram channel? What a dumpster fire. But let's be honest, I think retail investors weren't getting anything back anyways. Probably only impacts creditors
  - headsoup 4y ago
    Lol, a 'hack.' An unfortunately extremely convenient one that I'll almost guarantee specifically took customer funds, you know, after the bros already took their first cut.
    - themihai 4y ago
      It happens on Wall St as well but more "subtle". Retail investors and tax payers have always been the bag holders.
      - WeylandYutani 4y ago
        Do banks get hacked very often? They seem to have their security in order. Probably because they would have to reimburse their customers if something went wrong.
        ehnto 4y ago
        I imagine they do their best to run a tight ship yes, but I also imagine the fact that banks still run a lot of legacy pipelines and audits means it's also a little harder to find bugs in the apps and websites, that would actually let you achieve much.
        themihai 4y ago
        When the banks get bankrupt (i.e due overleverage, stealing/using customer's money etc) their customers get nothing back. A such example is MF Global. I'm not going into the whole story why banks and centralised/opaque finance is bad. Now the whole point of crypto was the tech behind it which was supposed to replace banks, exchanges and missuse of your OWN money. It's supposed to be an alternative to the trash financial tools we already use. The fact that people are using entities such FTX, Binance makes them deserve to be punished for their betrayal. Regardless if they use FTX or JP Morgan they pretty much deserve to experiment the shortfalls of centralised finance. I think it's part of the hello world example of what DeFi is trying to solve. One more thing: If FTX was hacked I bet it has almost nothing to do with the crypto technology. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MF_Global https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MF_Global
        fieldcny 4y ago
        MF Global wasn’t a bank. “Nothing to do with the crypto technology” is an empty and meaningless statement. IF, and that’s a very big if, they got hacked, the fact that $600m could be moved and disappeared so quickly is 100% to do with the “crypto technology”. In the real financial system it is exponentially harder to make money disappear, transfers are logged on three sides of the transaction, you have to hack multiple autonomous and different tech stacks, and you have to wait as the transfers get transmitted, validated and passed in.
  - dan-robertson 4y ago
    Retail investors are creditors right? Though I guess you mean only the larger creditors. I think the bigger difference is that bankruptcy proceedings take a long time and to a retail investor ‘you might get some money back in N years’ isn’t so different from ‘you get nothing’.
    - mcherm 4y ago
      > bankruptcy proceedings take a long time and to a retail investor ‘you might get some money back in N years’ isn’t so different from ‘you get nothing’. Does anyone actually remember MtGox? It wasn't actually that long ago!
      - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
        Karpelès never went to jail. He was convicted of poor recording keeping, not of embezzlement, and given a suspended sentence. If - hypothetically - someone else wanted to take a similar path, the odds of jail time are actually pretty low.
    - stall84 4y ago
      I just had that realization that I'm sure so many have already had.. In a bankruptcy, we really are creditors.. but we're not Creditors, and won't get our money back until big C's have had all they want.
      - dan-robertson 4y ago
        There’s such a thing as seniority of claims and it may often be the case that the mass of ordinary people don’t have the most senior claims but it isn’t about the size – investors (who, in some sense, have the most junior claims) will likely get hosed even though they’re big. I think there are two ways to think about this: 1. If you’re a company and you have N classes of debt then probably ‘ordinary people’ will all be in the same class (this can vary, eg if you’re a big retail store then wages owed will likely be a different more senior class of debt than anything you owe customers). So the more senior claims are more likely to be big companies as are the more junior claims, and it is unlikely that the ‘ordinary people’ class of debt will be the most senior. For FTX I expect the hedge funds and retail customers to have the same seniority. 2. Hedge funds, etc, will be able to retain lawyers and seek representation in the bankruptcy process in a way that is unaffordable to ordinary people. So they might end up with favourable timelines/restructurings or better accounting of what they’re owed but those arrangements can’t be that the big members of the class get a higher proportion of their money back than the smaller members.
- largepeepee 4y ago
  Some call this a "hack", others who are brighter noticed that the recent FTX limited account unfreeze before they declared bankruptcy was to mask their own personal outflows as they siphoned money from a sinking ship
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

Greed drives all of us to do things we normally wouldn’t. Given the nature of crypto, unless there’s a good reason to have the FTX app (say as opposed to using their website), then uninstalling it seems like very sound advice.

zeven7 4y ago

I reworded things to separate the first hand information (FTX_Official indicating they don't know what's going on) from speculation (app hacker rumors).

ackbar03 4y ago
I saw an update on coindesk that they confirmed it was a hack on their official telegram channel? What a dumpster fire. But let's be honest, I think retail investors weren't getting anything back anyways. Probably only impacts creditors
- headsoup 4y ago
  Lol, a 'hack.' An unfortunately extremely convenient one that I'll almost guarantee specifically took customer funds, you know, after the bros already took their first cut.
  - themihai 4y ago
    It happens on Wall St as well but more "subtle". Retail investors and tax payers have always been the bag holders.
    - WeylandYutani 4y ago
      Do banks get hacked very often? They seem to have their security in order. Probably because they would have to reimburse their customers if something went wrong.
      - ehnto 4y ago
        I imagine they do their best to run a tight ship yes, but I also imagine the fact that banks still run a lot of legacy pipelines and audits means it's also a little harder to find bugs in the apps and websites, that would actually let you achieve much.
      - themihai 4y ago
        When the banks get bankrupt (i.e due overleverage, stealing/using customer's money etc) their customers get nothing back. A such example is MF Global. I'm not going into the whole story why banks and centralised/opaque finance is bad. Now the whole point of crypto was the tech behind it which was supposed to replace banks, exchanges and missuse of your OWN money. It's supposed to be an alternative to the trash financial tools we already use. The fact that people are using entities such FTX, Binance makes them deserve to be punished for their betrayal. Regardless if they use FTX or JP Morgan they pretty much deserve to experiment the shortfalls of centralised finance. I think it's part of the hello world example of what DeFi is trying to solve. One more thing: If FTX was hacked I bet it has almost nothing to do with the crypto technology. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MF_Global https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MF_Global
        fieldcny 4y ago
        MF Global wasn’t a bank. “Nothing to do with the crypto technology” is an empty and meaningless statement. IF, and that’s a very big if, they got hacked, the fact that $600m could be moved and disappeared so quickly is 100% to do with the “crypto technology”. In the real financial system it is exponentially harder to make money disappear, transfers are logged on three sides of the transaction, you have to hack multiple autonomous and different tech stacks, and you have to wait as the transfers get transmitted, validated and passed in.
- dan-robertson 4y ago
  Retail investors are creditors right? Though I guess you mean only the larger creditors. I think the bigger difference is that bankruptcy proceedings take a long time and to a retail investor ‘you might get some money back in N years’ isn’t so different from ‘you get nothing’.
  - mcherm 4y ago
    > bankruptcy proceedings take a long time and to a retail investor ‘you might get some money back in N years’ isn’t so different from ‘you get nothing’. Does anyone actually remember MtGox? It wasn't actually that long ago!
    - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
      Karpelès never went to jail. He was convicted of poor recording keeping, not of embezzlement, and given a suspended sentence. If - hypothetically - someone else wanted to take a similar path, the odds of jail time are actually pretty low.
  - stall84 4y ago
    I just had that realization that I'm sure so many have already had.. In a bankruptcy, we really are creditors.. but we're not Creditors, and won't get our money back until big C's have had all they want.
    - dan-robertson 4y ago
      There’s such a thing as seniority of claims and it may often be the case that the mass of ordinary people don’t have the most senior claims but it isn’t about the size – investors (who, in some sense, have the most junior claims) will likely get hosed even though they’re big. I think there are two ways to think about this: 1. If you’re a company and you have N classes of debt then probably ‘ordinary people’ will all be in the same class (this can vary, eg if you’re a big retail store then wages owed will likely be a different more senior class of debt than anything you owe customers). So the more senior claims are more likely to be big companies as are the more junior claims, and it is unlikely that the ‘ordinary people’ class of debt will be the most senior. For FTX I expect the hedge funds and retail customers to have the same seniority. 2. Hedge funds, etc, will be able to retain lawyers and seek representation in the bankruptcy process in a way that is unaffordable to ordinary people. So they might end up with favourable timelines/restructurings or better accounting of what they’re owed but those arrangements can’t be that the big members of the class get a higher proportion of their money back than the smaller members.
largepeepee 4y ago
Some call this a "hack", others who are brighter noticed that the recent FTX limited account unfreeze before they declared bankruptcy was to mask their own personal outflows as they siphoned money from a sinking ship
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]