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I'll copy my other comment over: I get your intent - that people don't understand what federation means. But you're completely ignoring that we all live with f

I'll copy my other comment over: I get your intent - that people don't understand what federation means. But you're completely ignoring that we all live with federated email servers. Federated cell phone carriers, too, for that matter. This is honestly not that different. I 100% get what your intent is, but you seem to 100% not get that this sentence was completely false: > I can sign up for an email right now with a dozen different services and not one will make me complete a mysterious task like "choosing a server" And the same way that you can't "create your email account first, and then pick a server later," is the same exact reason you can't "create your Mastodon account first, and then pick your server later." It's literally the same reason. And you still seem to be completely rejecting that concept. As though this is "just bad UX." It's fundamental to how both e-mail and Mastodon work. They can't "fix it," the way you wish they could. Sure, they might come up with something, but it would be inherently worse at some really important things it's trying to do. It wants to be federated. Just like email. And you seem to not have any understanding of that. AND to be -mad- at the people who are trying to help you understand. As though we're purposefully wasting your time.

standardUser 4y ago
What I don't get is how everyone here seems to fail so spectacularly at understanding the needs of the average internet user. Don't ya'll work in tech? Users are not like you and I, and anything other than the standard sign up process is going to devastate the new user funnel. Which is fine if they don't want to become a household name! But it is absolutely not fine for those who desirer Mastodon to function as a legitimate Twitter replacement.
- rakoo 4y ago
  > But it is absolutely not fine for those who desirer Mastodon to function as a legitimate Twitter replacement. You know who wants to see Mastodon as a Twitter replacement ? Not Mastodon users, and not fediverse inhabitants. It's all the Twitter serfs who want to find a new place where they will be taken care of. Except that place doesn't exist in the Fediverse. For some reason people keep complaining about Mastodon not being easy enough, but it's the same people who believe they are expert enough to speak in the name of non-experts. It gets tiring to hear them.
- pwinnski 4y ago
  You're going to be frustrated trying to make this banana act like an orange. It just won't work. If by "Twitter replacement" you mean "a place for microblogging," then sure, almost any mastodon server should do. But if you mean "replicating the entire Twitter experience," that just isn't going to happen with mastodon, ever. So instead of telling people "sign up for mastodon," if it make you feel better, tell them to "sign up for X" where X is one of the ten servers I mentioned in my mastodon explainer post[0], none of which are aimed specifically at tech-savvy people. 0. https://qoto.org/@pwinn/109315562185308969 https://qoto.org/@pwinn/109315562185308969
- VikingCoder 4y ago
  I legitimately think you have no memory of what it used to be like to get on the Internet. "Average internet users" went through all of that. They learned the incantations, and they performed them on a daily basis, to get at something new. There are people who do not know how to read any written language, at all, who use Smartphones on a daily basis. They learn how to navigate the icons, without any ability to read. I think you have no memory of what it used to be like to put an app on your iPhone. Over-The-Air installs and updates didn't happen at first. People had to use iTunes on a Desktop, with a cord plugged in, to do stuff. My 90 year old grandmother knew how to get into the App Store, install apps, and set up accounts. I think you're vastly underestimating the number of steps users will go through to get at something good. So, please, think about that for a moment. But more importantly, if I send you an invite to the same Mastodon server I'm on, you literally skip the one and only one new step ("pick a server") that you've spent all of this time and energy complaining about. Yup. The thing you've been bemoaning this entire time isn't even an issue, if you get an invite link. And frankly, that's probably how the majority of eventual Mastodon users will actually get there - by following a link a friend sends them. Have a great weekend.
dendriti 4y ago
OK so, let's say I completely understand every facet of signing up for and using Mastadon, but still think it's bullshit that few normal users will navigate. Is my opinion valid now?
- VikingCoder 4y ago
  Anyone can have any opinion they want to have. But when they make it based on a flawed claim, like, "I can get an email account without first picking a server," don't you think it's better if they understand that their claim was false?

standardUser 4y ago

What I don't get is how everyone here seems to fail so spectacularly at understanding the needs of the average internet user. Don't ya'll work in tech? Users are not like you and I, and anything other than the standard sign up process is going to devastate the new user funnel. Which is fine if they don't want to become a household name! But it is absolutely not fine for those who desirer Mastodon to function as a legitimate Twitter replacement.

rakoo 4y ago
> But it is absolutely not fine for those who desirer Mastodon to function as a legitimate Twitter replacement. You know who wants to see Mastodon as a Twitter replacement ? Not Mastodon users, and not fediverse inhabitants. It's all the Twitter serfs who want to find a new place where they will be taken care of. Except that place doesn't exist in the Fediverse. For some reason people keep complaining about Mastodon not being easy enough, but it's the same people who believe they are expert enough to speak in the name of non-experts. It gets tiring to hear them.
pwinnski 4y ago
You're going to be frustrated trying to make this banana act like an orange. It just won't work. If by "Twitter replacement" you mean "a place for microblogging," then sure, almost any mastodon server should do. But if you mean "replicating the entire Twitter experience," that just isn't going to happen with mastodon, ever. So instead of telling people "sign up for mastodon," if it make you feel better, tell them to "sign up for X" where X is one of the ten servers I mentioned in my mastodon explainer post[0], none of which are aimed specifically at tech-savvy people. 0. https://qoto.org/@pwinn/109315562185308969 https://qoto.org/@pwinn/109315562185308969
VikingCoder 4y ago
I legitimately think you have no memory of what it used to be like to get on the Internet. "Average internet users" went through all of that. They learned the incantations, and they performed them on a daily basis, to get at something new. There are people who do not know how to read any written language, at all, who use Smartphones on a daily basis. They learn how to navigate the icons, without any ability to read. I think you have no memory of what it used to be like to put an app on your iPhone. Over-The-Air installs and updates didn't happen at first. People had to use iTunes on a Desktop, with a cord plugged in, to do stuff. My 90 year old grandmother knew how to get into the App Store, install apps, and set up accounts. I think you're vastly underestimating the number of steps users will go through to get at something good. So, please, think about that for a moment. But more importantly, if I send you an invite to the same Mastodon server I'm on, you literally skip the one and only one new step ("pick a server") that you've spent all of this time and energy complaining about. Yup. The thing you've been bemoaning this entire time isn't even an issue, if you get an invite link. And frankly, that's probably how the majority of eventual Mastodon users will actually get there - by following a link a friend sends them. Have a great weekend.

dendriti 4y ago

OK so, let's say I completely understand every facet of signing up for and using Mastadon, but still think it's bullshit that few normal users will navigate. Is my opinion valid now?

VikingCoder 4y ago
Anyone can have any opinion they want to have. But when they make it based on a flawed claim, like, "I can get an email account without first picking a server," don't you think it's better if they understand that their claim was false?