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> Does the number of bugs grow linearly with code size? Sub-linearly? Super-linearly? My gut feeling still says “sub-linear”. My loose reasoning says it has to

by mrkeen 4y ago

> Does the number of bugs grow linearly with code size? Sub-linearly? Super-linearly? My gut feeling still says “sub-linear”. My loose reasoning says it has to be linear (like interest generated on bank accounts). Otherwise you could simply merge two large codebases to squash bugs (in the case of sublinear bug growth) or divide a large codebase (in the case of superlinear bug growth). ALternatively, in a sublinear-bug-growth codebase, you could just keep adding and adding to it until eventually you'd add no more bugs.

dskloet 4y ago
You can't just divide a code base that's entangled. If you disentangle it, you'll remove some bugs in the process. My feeling is that it's super-linear for this reason.
- tonyarkles 4y ago
  Completely agree. And my favourite add-on is if it’s broken apart such that one half of it ends up being a library, adding a second consumer to that library will tend to further reduce bugs, even more so if the second consumer is written by a different team. (Eventually, at least, because the second consumer is going to find bugs so the start)
a99wang 4y ago
I don't quite follow this logic. If one manipulates a codebase in the ways you describe (merging with another, or dividing a larger one), the result doesn't even have to be a working program; how can we compare the result with the original? The real answer is probably that it might depends on how tightly coupled the code is, how much test coverage there is (assuming that tests are included in code size), the quality of the authors who wrote the code (this might be circular), maybe even on the technology used, or what you consider distinct bugs, etc. My intuition leans towards super-linear, but only slightly so -- large codebases tend to have many authors (many of whom may have since stopped working on the project) and be old.
bogdanoff_2 4y ago
I think it would make sense to imagine the codebase as a graph of some sorts, and the number of bugs as a function of both the number of vertices and edges.
wruza 4y ago
My gut feeling is it grows linearly with any actions over codebase that are not accompanied by both testing and real usage. Well, until tech debt comes into play. But there are many ways to make it non-linear, e.g. one can build a nice high-level structure which becomes irrelevant when goals shift. Or one can sign up for a paradigm which requires better developers and deeper understanding.
WalterSear 4y ago
Bugs grow linearly when writing them, not after they are written. > divide a large codebase (in the case of superlinear bug growth). I do almost exactly that when approaching a problematic system: refactor aspects of it as pure components or separate services in order to isolate behaviours from each other. Even just what you describe - breaking a large codebase into two smaller (working) ones - exposes an interface that can reveal failed intentions. It's just usually an incredible bitch to do, unless you initially refactor the parts to minimize internal state and the types of interactions the two parts have (ie - make them more 'pure'). Decidedly super linear, IME.
SilasX 4y ago
Bugs definitely grow super-linearly, at least exponentially. They scale with the number of interactions between lines, which grows exponentially. (That, in turn, scales with the number of unforeseen-behavior-we-don't-like, which is generally what is meant by a "bug".) To be sure, well-written code decouples the different components so that distant pairs of lines interact as little as possible, and thus it's more difficult for unforeseen constellations of factors to arise. Well-written code also minimizes the possible values that are used and have to behave correctly. But all else equal, it will be exponential. Your intuition is correct, that you can significantly reduce bugs by splitting an N-size code-base into two N/2-size code bases. But there's only so much you can split it down while achieving the desired functionality. Plus, there's overhead to constantly switching between codebases.
yarg 4y ago
> Does the number of bugs grow linearly with code size? Sub-linearly? Super-linearly? My gut feeling still says “sub-linear”. Depends on whay you're doing; are you implementing features, refactoring, or fixing bugs? Generally, I'm guessing that the number of bugs will be linear, but the number of bugs in common code paths will be logarithmic. Or perhaps that the likelyhood of a bug in a given piece of code decays exponentially with the age of that code. There's also the issue of developer familiarity with the code base, and where in the code base the changes are occurring.

by mrkeen 4y ago

dskloet 4y ago

You can't just divide a code base that's entangled. If you disentangle it, you'll remove some bugs in the process. My feeling is that it's super-linear for this reason.

tonyarkles 4y ago
Completely agree. And my favourite add-on is if it’s broken apart such that one half of it ends up being a library, adding a second consumer to that library will tend to further reduce bugs, even more so if the second consumer is written by a different team. (Eventually, at least, because the second consumer is going to find bugs so the start)

a99wang 4y ago

I don't quite follow this logic. If one manipulates a codebase in the ways you describe (merging with another, or dividing a larger one), the result doesn't even have to be a working program; how can we compare the result with the original? The real answer is probably that it might depends on how tightly coupled the code is, how much test coverage there is (assuming that tests are included in code size), the quality of the authors who wrote the code (this might be circular), maybe even on the technology used, or what you consider distinct bugs, etc. My intuition leans towards super-linear, but only slightly so -- large codebases tend to have many authors (many of whom may have since stopped working on the project) and be old.

bogdanoff_2 4y ago

I think it would make sense to imagine the codebase as a graph of some sorts, and the number of bugs as a function of both the number of vertices and edges.

wruza 4y ago

My gut feeling is it grows linearly with any actions over codebase that are not accompanied by both testing and real usage. Well, until tech debt comes into play. But there are many ways to make it non-linear, e.g. one can build a nice high-level structure which becomes irrelevant when goals shift. Or one can sign up for a paradigm which requires better developers and deeper understanding.

WalterSear 4y ago

Bugs grow linearly when writing them, not after they are written. > divide a large codebase (in the case of superlinear bug growth). I do almost exactly that when approaching a problematic system: refactor aspects of it as pure components or separate services in order to isolate behaviours from each other. Even just what you describe - breaking a large codebase into two smaller (working) ones - exposes an interface that can reveal failed intentions. It's just usually an incredible bitch to do, unless you initially refactor the parts to minimize internal state and the types of interactions the two parts have (ie - make them more 'pure'). Decidedly super linear, IME.

SilasX 4y ago

Bugs definitely grow super-linearly, at least exponentially. They scale with the number of interactions between lines, which grows exponentially. (That, in turn, scales with the number of unforeseen-behavior-we-don't-like, which is generally what is meant by a "bug".) To be sure, well-written code decouples the different components so that distant pairs of lines interact as little as possible, and thus it's more difficult for unforeseen constellations of factors to arise. Well-written code also minimizes the possible values that are used and have to behave correctly. But all else equal, it will be exponential. Your intuition is correct, that you can significantly reduce bugs by splitting an N-size code-base into two N/2-size code bases. But there's only so much you can split it down while achieving the desired functionality. Plus, there's overhead to constantly switching between codebases.

yarg 4y ago

> Does the number of bugs grow linearly with code size? Sub-linearly? Super-linearly? My gut feeling still says “sub-linear”. Depends on whay you're doing; are you implementing features, refactoring, or fixing bugs? Generally, I'm guessing that the number of bugs will be linear, but the number of bugs in common code paths will be logarithmic. Or perhaps that the likelyhood of a bug in a given piece of code decays exponentially with the age of that code. There's also the issue of developer familiarity with the code base, and where in the code base the changes are occurring.