4 ms·

Unions in France and Germany are much more powerful than in the US.

legitster 4y ago
Uhhhh. Probably not though. US labor laws focuses on all or nothing union control of a workplace. And once they have control, they get a lot of legal power. Europe has a different model where unions do not have to have any sort of majority vote to be recognized. As such, membership tends to be more fluid. So the unions themselves have less specific control, but the unions can be larger, and be more recognized without as much antagonization. Also, US unions have a lot of power over healthcare in the US. Usually being a function of the state in Europe, there's a lot less cost at stake when dealing with a European union. So I think it's largely an apples to oranges comparison.
- rhaway84773 4y ago
  It is an Apples to Oranges comparison. But when was the last time a major public U.S. union went on strike? Whereas French railway workers do it all the time. If you’re talking about power along a single axis that alone makes the French unions significantly more powerful.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >But when was the last time a major public U.S. union went on strike? If unions get their way, why would they need to go on strike? The French go on strike because their unions don't always get their way.
  - Dracophoenix 4y ago
    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/20/threat-of-rail-strike-has-supply-chain-ramping-up-contingency-plans.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/20/threat-of-rail-strike-has-su...
  - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
    The number of visible strikes is a sign of union FAILURE,not success. The way unions work in the English speaking world is quite toxic and one of the major reasons they have such a bad reputation with so many people. Not saying they are all 100% bad but the big anti-union push and negative perception is not some pay-op like some people seem to think it is. It is based on assessing their behaviour and for many deciding it is quite unreasonable.
- DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
  Unions in Europe can and do go on strike. There's even a German word, "Warnstreik," that refers to a short strike (as short as a few hours) carried out just to send a warning to company management that the union means business. The unions in the transit sector are extremely active in Germany and France. As we speak, Paris is at standstill because of a massive transit strike.[0] 0. https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20221110-unions-warn-of-indefinite-paris-transport-strike-in-fight-to-boost-wages https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20221110-unions-warn-of-indefin...
  - bombcar 4y ago
    More strikes indicates the union is less powerful - a powerful union never has to strike, because they always get what they want just through fear of a strike.
    - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
      I think you have it backwards. Unless the threat is exercised every once in a while, it is not taken seriously. German and French companies know that unions are capable of and willing to go on strike if their demands are not met. That gives companies a much larger incentive to make concessions. The Warnstreiks I mentioned earlier are a tool for reminding companies every once in a while that the possibility of a strike exists. They're often used during contract negotiations, when the union doesn't feel the company is giving enough.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        So unless we nuke a country every once in awhile it's not taken seriously? The last rail strike was adverted at the last moment, like it often is, so I suspect the railroad union is not weak.
        DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
        I'm going to suggest that nuclear weapons and labor strikes are sightly different types of things.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Not really. Unions in Germany are like a partnership to the company management, while in the US are like the enemy of the management focused on total control and can get away with a lot more stuff than what they can in Germany. At least in the construction business.
missedthecue 4y ago
In certain US cities, construction unions are literally organized crime. And I'm not misusing literally.

Uhhhh. Probably not though. US labor laws focuses on all or nothing union control of a workplace. And once they have control, they get a lot of legal power. Europe has a different model where unions do not have to have any sort of majority vote to be recognized. As such, membership tends to be more fluid. So the unions themselves have less specific control, but the unions can be larger, and be more recognized without as much antagonization. Also, US unions have a lot of power over healthcare in the US. Usually being a function of the state in Europe, there's a lot less cost at stake when dealing with a European union. So I think it's largely an apples to oranges comparison.

rhaway84773 4y ago
It is an Apples to Oranges comparison. But when was the last time a major public U.S. union went on strike? Whereas French railway workers do it all the time. If you’re talking about power along a single axis that alone makes the French unions significantly more powerful.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >But when was the last time a major public U.S. union went on strike? If unions get their way, why would they need to go on strike? The French go on strike because their unions don't always get their way.
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/20/threat-of-rail-strike-has-supply-chain-ramping-up-contingency-plans.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/20/threat-of-rail-strike-has-su...
- TapWaterBandit 4y ago
  The number of visible strikes is a sign of union FAILURE,not success. The way unions work in the English speaking world is quite toxic and one of the major reasons they have such a bad reputation with so many people. Not saying they are all 100% bad but the big anti-union push and negative perception is not some pay-op like some people seem to think it is. It is based on assessing their behaviour and for many deciding it is quite unreasonable.
DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
Unions in Europe can and do go on strike. There's even a German word, "Warnstreik," that refers to a short strike (as short as a few hours) carried out just to send a warning to company management that the union means business. The unions in the transit sector are extremely active in Germany and France. As we speak, Paris is at standstill because of a massive transit strike.[0] 0. https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20221110-unions-warn-of-indefinite-paris-transport-strike-in-fight-to-boost-wages https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20221110-unions-warn-of-indefin...
- bombcar 4y ago
  More strikes indicates the union is less powerful - a powerful union never has to strike, because they always get what they want just through fear of a strike.
  - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
    I think you have it backwards. Unless the threat is exercised every once in a while, it is not taken seriously. German and French companies know that unions are capable of and willing to go on strike if their demands are not met. That gives companies a much larger incentive to make concessions. The Warnstreiks I mentioned earlier are a tool for reminding companies every once in a while that the possibility of a strike exists. They're often used during contract negotiations, when the union doesn't feel the company is giving enough.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      So unless we nuke a country every once in awhile it's not taken seriously? The last rail strike was adverted at the last moment, like it often is, so I suspect the railroad union is not weak.
      - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
        I'm going to suggest that nuclear weapons and labor strikes are sightly different types of things.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

Not really. Unions in Germany are like a partnership to the company management, while in the US are like the enemy of the management focused on total control and can get away with a lot more stuff than what they can in Germany. At least in the construction business.

missedthecue 4y ago

In certain US cities, construction unions are literally organized crime. And I'm not misusing literally.