4 ms·

Doesn't really matter even if it's slightly technically better. We are WAY too late in the game here (US is already deploying federal funds!), and they should h

by akozak 4y ago

Doesn't really matter even if it's slightly technically better. We are WAY too late in the game here (US is already deploying federal funds!), and they should have engaged with open standards a decade ago.

gibolt 4y ago
This implies they didn't, which is false. CCS was released slightly before the Model S (first to use Tesla's connector). Both were developed at the same time. At the time, there was no viable alternative for Tesla. Now, there is no reason to revert to a significantly subpar option.
- akozak 4y ago
  Yes there is - because their proprietary (until today) plug is not the industry standard.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
kelnos 4y ago
Yup, I don't think it matters which one is technically better. They both get the job done, and one is an actual standard that many car makers have agreed upon -- "many" meaning "every single one except Tesla". If Tesla wanted theirs to be standard, they should have made this move years ago. They missed the boat, and are now scrambling to avoid having to change their own sockets.
- politician 4y ago
  Looks at Apple.
  - akozak 4y ago
    It's an apt comparison, and obviously there has been movement (eg the EU) to push them onto usb, but I think cars are a slightly different context than laptops/phones where there us much more of a social incentive to standardize early, given the high cost, low turnover, lower availability of fuel/energy during transport with competing plugs, etc.
  - Bud 4y ago
  - robin_reala 4y ago
    EU managed to get Tesla to standardise onto a common plug (CCS2) too, but unlike with USB-C it Tesla are happy to not roll it out globally.
- Bud 4y ago
nomel 4y ago
What "game" are they too late for? The number of ports is the game, and the reason my next EV will be a Tesla. It's very difficult to find charge stations that aren't Tesla, and when you do, they're often used for general parking.
- margalabargala 4y ago
  Out of curiosity, where in the US are you? Where I am (Oregon), public CCS charger locations outnumber Tesla chargers several times over. There are huge areas of the state that have CCS chargers, but no Tesla charging capacity. My next EV will certainly not be a Tesla, for that reason.
  - nomel 4y ago
    California, near a city of over a million people. It's maybe 4 (Tesla) to 1 where I am, physically, with most non-tesla ports being 240V. I've even run into 120V. Available port wise, it's much much worse. Until these other companies implement a fee/reporting system, for sitting in the charge spot all day, it's going to remain very painful. A family friend returned her EV after realizing how dumb the situation is here. Perhaps it's a regional problem.
  - chroma 4y ago
    Tesla Superchargers outnumber all other HVDC chargers in every state, usually by a factor of 2. Maybe you're thinking of the chargers that use the J1772 connector?[1] Those charge via AC, and every Tesla comes with an adapter for them. Tesla also sells a CCS adapter in case you want to use other high voltage chargers such as Electrify America.[2] Though honestly, other charging networks are a shitshow. A friend of mine has an Audi e-tron and he won't drive it farther than Tahoe. Electrify America is too unreliable to trust for road trips. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772 2. https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter
    - margalabargala 4y ago
      No, I'm not thinking of J1772 chargers. I'm thinking of CCS chargers. We're talking about two different things. You are talking about the count of chargers. Tesla has a higher quantity of chargers, yes. However, their chargers are concentrated; a single charging location has 30+ chargers. This drives their high charger count numbers. CCS chargers are more geographically widespread. There are more locations with CCS chargers than with Tesla chargers. There are fewer CCS plugs in total, but you're more likely to be close to one. It's more useful to have one fast-charging location with 3 plugs every 50 miles, than to have 500 fast-chargers next to one another in a single location and then nothing in a 200-mile radius. If you go to plugshare.com and zoom in to Oregon, you can toggle back and forth between Tesla and CCS. There are very visibly way more discrete places in Oregon that have a CCS charger.

by akozak 4y ago

gibolt 4y ago

This implies they didn't, which is false. CCS was released slightly before the Model S (first to use Tesla's connector). Both were developed at the same time. At the time, there was no viable alternative for Tesla. Now, there is no reason to revert to a significantly subpar option.

akozak 4y ago
Yes there is - because their proprietary (until today) plug is not the industry standard.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

kelnos 4y ago

Yup, I don't think it matters which one is technically better. They both get the job done, and one is an actual standard that many car makers have agreed upon -- "many" meaning "every single one except Tesla". If Tesla wanted theirs to be standard, they should have made this move years ago. They missed the boat, and are now scrambling to avoid having to change their own sockets.

politician 4y ago
Looks at Apple.
- akozak 4y ago
  It's an apt comparison, and obviously there has been movement (eg the EU) to push them onto usb, but I think cars are a slightly different context than laptops/phones where there us much more of a social incentive to standardize early, given the high cost, low turnover, lower availability of fuel/energy during transport with competing plugs, etc.
- Bud 4y ago
- robin_reala 4y ago
  EU managed to get Tesla to standardise onto a common plug (CCS2) too, but unlike with USB-C it Tesla are happy to not roll it out globally.
Bud 4y ago

nomel 4y ago

What "game" are they too late for? The number of ports is the game, and the reason my next EV will be a Tesla. It's very difficult to find charge stations that aren't Tesla, and when you do, they're often used for general parking.

margalabargala 4y ago
Out of curiosity, where in the US are you? Where I am (Oregon), public CCS charger locations outnumber Tesla chargers several times over. There are huge areas of the state that have CCS chargers, but no Tesla charging capacity. My next EV will certainly not be a Tesla, for that reason.
- nomel 4y ago
  California, near a city of over a million people. It's maybe 4 (Tesla) to 1 where I am, physically, with most non-tesla ports being 240V. I've even run into 120V. Available port wise, it's much much worse. Until these other companies implement a fee/reporting system, for sitting in the charge spot all day, it's going to remain very painful. A family friend returned her EV after realizing how dumb the situation is here. Perhaps it's a regional problem.
- chroma 4y ago
  Tesla Superchargers outnumber all other HVDC chargers in every state, usually by a factor of 2. Maybe you're thinking of the chargers that use the J1772 connector?[1] Those charge via AC, and every Tesla comes with an adapter for them. Tesla also sells a CCS adapter in case you want to use other high voltage chargers such as Electrify America.[2] Though honestly, other charging networks are a shitshow. A friend of mine has an Audi e-tron and he won't drive it farther than Tahoe. Electrify America is too unreliable to trust for road trips. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772 2. https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter
  - margalabargala 4y ago
    No, I'm not thinking of J1772 chargers. I'm thinking of CCS chargers. We're talking about two different things. You are talking about the count of chargers. Tesla has a higher quantity of chargers, yes. However, their chargers are concentrated; a single charging location has 30+ chargers. This drives their high charger count numbers. CCS chargers are more geographically widespread. There are more locations with CCS chargers than with Tesla chargers. There are fewer CCS plugs in total, but you're more likely to be close to one. It's more useful to have one fast-charging location with 3 plugs every 50 miles, than to have 500 fast-chargers next to one another in a single location and then nothing in a 200-mile radius. If you go to plugshare.com and zoom in to Oregon, you can toggle back and forth between Tesla and CCS. There are very visibly way more discrete places in Oregon that have a CCS charger.