4 ms·

I think it's a good strategy given how people are standardizing on CCS1 in NA. They're embracing CCS1 to a large degree, offering adapters for plugging your car

by wilg 4y ago

I think it's a good strategy given how people are standardizing on CCS1 in NA. They're embracing CCS1 to a large degree, offering adapters for plugging your car into a CCS charger and allowing CCS cars to charge at Superchargers. But the connector is definitely better, so they may as well open it up in the hopes that people adopt the nicer plug and then they won't have to change it after all. Basically no reason not to given how things are going with CCS1. I certainly think from a usability perspective it would be preferable if "NACS" was the winner. CCS is not a great design.

maxsilver 4y ago
> But the (Tesla) connector is definitely better, I'm not convinced of that. Tesla's connector is thinner and lighter yes absolutely. But Tesla is also weaker and less reliable \ less fault tolerant than standard EV charger cables (See the dreaded EP307 / lock error, something that can't even happen with a normal EV CCS charger) I definitely think it's preferable for CCS win, as it's the safest, most durable, most compatible, while also being the lowest cost option.
- gpt5 4y ago
  >it's preferable for CCS win, as it's the safest, most durable, most compatible, while also being the lowest cost option. Can you share a link to back these claims?
- gibolt 4y ago
  Not sure where any of these suggestions come from. Superchargers have the highest utilization and uptime in the industry. Thinner means more accessible/easier to use. CCS is wholly unreliable if it is even slightly at the wrong angle, which is common due to the bulk of the plug and cable.
- rnk 4y ago
  The tesla plug has a decade of successful heavy use behind it, and it doesn't have a history of failing despite being the most used ev charging system and plug in the world (comparing to the ccs standards around the us and the world). You'll need to provide some references to point to tesla problems. On the other hand I have a brand new us ccs car and every time I go to a public charger it's an open question whether it will work (and yes there are a variety of problems). CCS charging is less reliable, it's a common thing for people to complain about ccs charging problems. With due respect, I think you are wrong.
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the vast majority of 'faulty' chargers are in fact issues with software. Ie. Network connection down. Car not registered. Card terminal broken. Etc.
    - rnk 4y ago
      I think you are probably right that most problems are hardware, but there are a lot of broken chargers (display out, not fixed). People just report them all the time. look at reddit.com/r/electricvehicles. But yeah, it's probably a lot of software issues. Strangely I do not hear from Europe that there are problems like here. I don't hear about 'charger is broken or won't charge' in Europe when people use tesla chargers (which are on the euro-ccs standard just like tesla cars there). Can anyone chime in? I'm in the US.
mertd 4y ago
> and allowing CCS cars to charge at Superchargers. I'm reading the announcement differently. They are saying future non Teslas who adopt NACS can use the Tesla chargers. It doesn't say anything about current CCS cars being able to use Tesla charging.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  Tesla announced a plan to open superchargers to non-Tesla EVs earlier this year; Musk announced that they would be adding CCS to US superchargers back in May. Unfortunately Musk is both the official Press contact for Tesla and also a guy who says a lot of random half-baked things, so it's impossible to determine if this was an official policy or just an idea he had one morning. [1] Even after this move I don't see any way that the Tesla standard gains enough momentum to take over from CCS in the non-Tesla US EV market. If Tesla had done this in 2015 there's a chance it might have caught on globally. With the non-Tesla US EV market locked into CCS and growing rapidly (and Tesla itself already committed to CCS in Europe), it feels like the Tesla standard is doomed. (In fact today's move is actually sort of bad news, since it indicates that maybe Tesla hasn't quite accepted this reality.) [1] https://electrek.co/2022/05/10/tesla-add-ccs-connectors-supercharger-stations-us-elon-musk/ https://electrek.co/2022/05/10/tesla-add-ccs-connectors-supe...
  - AlanSE 4y ago
    My thoughts as well, this is their business advantage to lose. > NACS is the most common charging standard in North America: NACS vehicles outnumber CCS two-to-one, and Tesla's Supercharging network has 60% more NACS posts than all the CCS-equipped networks combined. Yet, in your link it's complained about that the Supercharging network capacity is already strained. Bottom line is that the vast majority of the charging stations that will exist 10 years from now are still yet to be built. Tesla may still be hoping for a regional break, as their standard wins in some geographies but not for others. This would be a loss for all of us all collectively. Certainly feels like they should have known better. Past greed will leave them (and their customers) with a massive writeoff in the future if your prediction comes to pass.
akozak 4y ago
Doesn't really matter even if it's slightly technically better. We are WAY too late in the game here (US is already deploying federal funds!), and they should have engaged with open standards a decade ago.
- gibolt 4y ago
  This implies they didn't, which is false. CCS was released slightly before the Model S (first to use Tesla's connector). Both were developed at the same time. At the time, there was no viable alternative for Tesla. Now, there is no reason to revert to a significantly subpar option.
  - akozak 4y ago
    Yes there is - because their proprietary (until today) plug is not the industry standard.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- kelnos 4y ago
  Yup, I don't think it matters which one is technically better. They both get the job done, and one is an actual standard that many car makers have agreed upon -- "many" meaning "every single one except Tesla". If Tesla wanted theirs to be standard, they should have made this move years ago. They missed the boat, and are now scrambling to avoid having to change their own sockets.
  - politician 4y ago
    Looks at Apple.
    - akozak 4y ago
      It's an apt comparison, and obviously there has been movement (eg the EU) to push them onto usb, but I think cars are a slightly different context than laptops/phones where there us much more of a social incentive to standardize early, given the high cost, low turnover, lower availability of fuel/energy during transport with competing plugs, etc.

by wilg 4y ago

maxsilver 4y ago

> But the (Tesla) connector is definitely better, I'm not convinced of that. Tesla's connector is thinner and lighter yes absolutely. But Tesla is also weaker and less reliable \ less fault tolerant than standard EV charger cables (See the dreaded EP307 / lock error, something that can't even happen with a normal EV CCS charger) I definitely think it's preferable for CCS win, as it's the safest, most durable, most compatible, while also being the lowest cost option.

gpt5 4y ago
>it's preferable for CCS win, as it's the safest, most durable, most compatible, while also being the lowest cost option. Can you share a link to back these claims?
gibolt 4y ago
Not sure where any of these suggestions come from. Superchargers have the highest utilization and uptime in the industry. Thinner means more accessible/easier to use. CCS is wholly unreliable if it is even slightly at the wrong angle, which is common due to the bulk of the plug and cable.
rnk 4y ago
The tesla plug has a decade of successful heavy use behind it, and it doesn't have a history of failing despite being the most used ev charging system and plug in the world (comparing to the ccs standards around the us and the world). You'll need to provide some references to point to tesla problems. On the other hand I have a brand new us ccs car and every time I go to a public charger it's an open question whether it will work (and yes there are a variety of problems). CCS charging is less reliable, it's a common thing for people to complain about ccs charging problems. With due respect, I think you are wrong.
- londons_explore 4y ago
  I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the vast majority of 'faulty' chargers are in fact issues with software. Ie. Network connection down. Car not registered. Card terminal broken. Etc.
  - rnk 4y ago
    I think you are probably right that most problems are hardware, but there are a lot of broken chargers (display out, not fixed). People just report them all the time. look at reddit.com/r/electricvehicles. But yeah, it's probably a lot of software issues. Strangely I do not hear from Europe that there are problems like here. I don't hear about 'charger is broken or won't charge' in Europe when people use tesla chargers (which are on the euro-ccs standard just like tesla cars there). Can anyone chime in? I'm in the US.

mertd 4y ago

> and allowing CCS cars to charge at Superchargers. I'm reading the announcement differently. They are saying future non Teslas who adopt NACS can use the Tesla chargers. It doesn't say anything about current CCS cars being able to use Tesla charging.

matthewdgreen 4y ago
Tesla announced a plan to open superchargers to non-Tesla EVs earlier this year; Musk announced that they would be adding CCS to US superchargers back in May. Unfortunately Musk is both the official Press contact for Tesla and also a guy who says a lot of random half-baked things, so it's impossible to determine if this was an official policy or just an idea he had one morning. [1] Even after this move I don't see any way that the Tesla standard gains enough momentum to take over from CCS in the non-Tesla US EV market. If Tesla had done this in 2015 there's a chance it might have caught on globally. With the non-Tesla US EV market locked into CCS and growing rapidly (and Tesla itself already committed to CCS in Europe), it feels like the Tesla standard is doomed. (In fact today's move is actually sort of bad news, since it indicates that maybe Tesla hasn't quite accepted this reality.) [1] https://electrek.co/2022/05/10/tesla-add-ccs-connectors-supercharger-stations-us-elon-musk/ https://electrek.co/2022/05/10/tesla-add-ccs-connectors-supe...
- AlanSE 4y ago
  My thoughts as well, this is their business advantage to lose. > NACS is the most common charging standard in North America: NACS vehicles outnumber CCS two-to-one, and Tesla's Supercharging network has 60% more NACS posts than all the CCS-equipped networks combined. Yet, in your link it's complained about that the Supercharging network capacity is already strained. Bottom line is that the vast majority of the charging stations that will exist 10 years from now are still yet to be built. Tesla may still be hoping for a regional break, as their standard wins in some geographies but not for others. This would be a loss for all of us all collectively. Certainly feels like they should have known better. Past greed will leave them (and their customers) with a massive writeoff in the future if your prediction comes to pass.

akozak 4y ago

Doesn't really matter even if it's slightly technically better. We are WAY too late in the game here (US is already deploying federal funds!), and they should have engaged with open standards a decade ago.

gibolt 4y ago
This implies they didn't, which is false. CCS was released slightly before the Model S (first to use Tesla's connector). Both were developed at the same time. At the time, there was no viable alternative for Tesla. Now, there is no reason to revert to a significantly subpar option.
- akozak 4y ago
  Yes there is - because their proprietary (until today) plug is not the industry standard.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
kelnos 4y ago
Yup, I don't think it matters which one is technically better. They both get the job done, and one is an actual standard that many car makers have agreed upon -- "many" meaning "every single one except Tesla". If Tesla wanted theirs to be standard, they should have made this move years ago. They missed the boat, and are now scrambling to avoid having to change their own sockets.
- politician 4y ago
  Looks at Apple.
  - akozak 4y ago
    It's an apt comparison, and obviously there has been movement (eg the EU) to push them onto usb, but I think cars are a slightly different context than laptops/phones where there us much more of a social incentive to standardize early, given the high cost, low turnover, lower availability of fuel/energy during transport with competing plugs, etc.