3 ms·

Lets be clear here: CBD is not a CB1 or CB2 agonist (or antagonist, or anything else). It is active at the serotonin-1a autoreceptor (like buspirone) as a parti

Lets be clear here: CBD is not a CB1 or CB2 agonist (or antagonist, or anything else). It is active at the serotonin-1a autoreceptor (like buspirone) as a partial agonist and then only at dosages that are infeasibly expensive at current market pricing. An adult human typically requires multiple 0.3 to 0.6 gram (that's 600 milligram) doses per day to reach a physiologically active level. Dosing and pricing it like THC is simply placebo. It is not THC. This study is based off obviously false premises.

mtreis86 4y ago
At $2 or less per gram it would be much cheaper than plenty of pharma products. https://www.crescentcanna.com/product/cbd-isolate-powder/ https://www.crescentcanna.com/product/cbd-isolate-powder/
- superkuh 4y ago
  It's good to see this. Just a handful of years ago it was priced the same as THC so a gram would be hundreds of dollars.
bgilly 4y ago
Thank you for sharing this. I’ve been looking for useful dosing data for years and haven’t found any. Do you have any references for the dosing data that you’ve mentioned?
- superkuh 4y ago
  I can't find the ones I'm remembering (where the researchers actually complained about price) but basically just look at any human study of CBD re: anxiety in a reputable scientific journal and 300-600mg is the baseline. ie, https://www.nature.com/articles/npp20116 https://www.nature.com/articles/npp20116 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0269881110379283 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/026988111037928...
themitigating 4y ago
Can you provide a rough estimate of how much it would cost for one dose?
ljf 4y ago
Interesting, my wife bought some 'strong' cdb oil caps and I ended up taking them - I certainly felt like I could feel them after taking one or two. Would be interested if it was all placebo as I found the effect (esp alongside 5htp) very pleasant and gave me excellent sleep.
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
> Lets be clear here: CBD is not a CB1 or CB2 agonist (or antagonist, or anything else). CBD does act on CB1 and CB2: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219532/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219532/ It also binds to a number of other receptors throughout the brain, but I don't think it's accurate to reduce its effects to a singular 5-HT1A receptor. It especially doesn't match the clinical effects, as Buspirone requires weeks to show effects while high doses of CBD are active within hours. But you're very right that the CBD dose in this study is far lower than other studies. Typical study doses are 300mg of CBD or more. > Dosing and pricing it like THC is simply placebo. It is not THC. The study was of a mixed CBD/THC mixture. The patients were actually receiving a total of 0.7mg of THC per day. Not enough for overt effects, but enough to do something (and also fail any drug tests they might take). The real flaw in this study is the lack of placebo group. You can't run a real psychiatric medication study without a control group and expect useful results.
- superkuh 4y ago
  I appreciate the input, but did you look at the Ki binding figures for CBD in the paper you linked? ~4000 nanomolar antagonist is not nanomolar unless you're really stretching it. It is so high that there are innumberable unrelated compounds with the same very low affinity. It is true it does act as an atagonist, but it is a vacuous truth applicable to so many things that you wouldn't call CB1 or CB2 antagonist.
tsol 4y ago
>Lets be clear here: CBD is not a CB1 or CB2 agonist (or antagonist, or anything else). I mean.. citation needed. That's the generally recognized MoA.
quesera 4y ago
We give CBD oil to our elderly dog. About 15mg, 2x/day. Dog is ~60lbs. There may be other (non-THC) cannabinoids/etc involved -- product ingredients are "Broad Spectrum CBD, Hemp Seed Oil", and is sold online as "CBD Oil". Dogs are not humans of course. I have not tested this product on myself. But I've clearly and immediately observed positive physiological effects after my dog has ingested this product. These are not laboratory conditions, but our tests were at least moderately-controlled and double-blind. After a couple weeks of varying dosages (including down to zero), we felt further experiments would be unnecessary and unkind. She has been in good shape ever since, with zero relapses into previous conditions, which were obvious and chronic. We have increased the dosage twice in the intervening ~3 years, when she was starting to show the smallest echo of the old condition. Each increase has had a clear, positive, and immediate (<1 day) effect. I have no dog in this fight. Well...I have no stake in this discussion of any other sort. I know how "miracle drug" this sounds, and I apologize if it strains credulity. YMMV. I'm deeply grateful for the impact CBD oil has had on my dog. I hope other dogs are equally fortunate. People too, if it works for them.

mtreis86 4y ago

At $2 or less per gram it would be much cheaper than plenty of pharma products. https://www.crescentcanna.com/product/cbd-isolate-powder/ https://www.crescentcanna.com/product/cbd-isolate-powder/

superkuh 4y ago
It's good to see this. Just a handful of years ago it was priced the same as THC so a gram would be hundreds of dollars.

bgilly 4y ago

Thank you for sharing this. I’ve been looking for useful dosing data for years and haven’t found any. Do you have any references for the dosing data that you’ve mentioned?

superkuh 4y ago
I can't find the ones I'm remembering (where the researchers actually complained about price) but basically just look at any human study of CBD re: anxiety in a reputable scientific journal and 300-600mg is the baseline. ie, https://www.nature.com/articles/npp20116 https://www.nature.com/articles/npp20116 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0269881110379283 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/026988111037928...

themitigating 4y ago

Can you provide a rough estimate of how much it would cost for one dose?

ljf 4y ago

Interesting, my wife bought some 'strong' cdb oil caps and I ended up taking them - I certainly felt like I could feel them after taking one or two. Would be interested if it was all placebo as I found the effect (esp alongside 5htp) very pleasant and gave me excellent sleep.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

> Lets be clear here: CBD is not a CB1 or CB2 agonist (or antagonist, or anything else). CBD does act on CB1 and CB2: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219532/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2219532/ It also binds to a number of other receptors throughout the brain, but I don't think it's accurate to reduce its effects to a singular 5-HT1A receptor. It especially doesn't match the clinical effects, as Buspirone requires weeks to show effects while high doses of CBD are active within hours. But you're very right that the CBD dose in this study is far lower than other studies. Typical study doses are 300mg of CBD or more. > Dosing and pricing it like THC is simply placebo. It is not THC. The study was of a mixed CBD/THC mixture. The patients were actually receiving a total of 0.7mg of THC per day. Not enough for overt effects, but enough to do something (and also fail any drug tests they might take). The real flaw in this study is the lack of placebo group. You can't run a real psychiatric medication study without a control group and expect useful results.

superkuh 4y ago
I appreciate the input, but did you look at the Ki binding figures for CBD in the paper you linked? ~4000 nanomolar antagonist is not nanomolar unless you're really stretching it. It is so high that there are innumberable unrelated compounds with the same very low affinity. It is true it does act as an atagonist, but it is a vacuous truth applicable to so many things that you wouldn't call CB1 or CB2 antagonist.

tsol 4y ago

>Lets be clear here: CBD is not a CB1 or CB2 agonist (or antagonist, or anything else). I mean.. citation needed. That's the generally recognized MoA.

quesera 4y ago

We give CBD oil to our elderly dog. About 15mg, 2x/day. Dog is ~60lbs. There may be other (non-THC) cannabinoids/etc involved -- product ingredients are "Broad Spectrum CBD, Hemp Seed Oil", and is sold online as "CBD Oil". Dogs are not humans of course. I have not tested this product on myself. But I've clearly and immediately observed positive physiological effects after my dog has ingested this product. These are not laboratory conditions, but our tests were at least moderately-controlled and double-blind. After a couple weeks of varying dosages (including down to zero), we felt further experiments would be unnecessary and unkind. She has been in good shape ever since, with zero relapses into previous conditions, which were obvious and chronic. We have increased the dosage twice in the intervening ~3 years, when she was starting to show the smallest echo of the old condition. Each increase has had a clear, positive, and immediate (<1 day) effect. I have no dog in this fight. Well...I have no stake in this discussion of any other sort. I know how "miracle drug" this sounds, and I apologize if it strains credulity. YMMV. I'm deeply grateful for the impact CBD oil has had on my dog. I hope other dogs are equally fortunate. People too, if it works for them.