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I don't understand what is so difficult about this. Allow anybody to get verified, they just need to present their passport and then their display name is fixe

I don't understand what is so difficult about this. Allow anybody to get verified, they just need to present their passport and then their display name is fixed to that name, or if its a company you verify that. Just letting anybody be verified while claiming to be 'Coca Cola Company' make no sense what so ever. Honestly, I think mortising that feature isn't a bad idea, specially for companies, politicians and so on. But just letting anybody pay for a check mark is kind of crazy. Why bot fighting is such a problem is also a mystery. I mean so often these bot account use literally the same picture, the same name and a username like @EIonMusk22525. How fucking hard is it to write some machine learning to recognize stuff like that? Having protection from bots that impersonate would seem to be a feature worth paying for, given how often the replies of somebody are full with impersonators that promote crypto schemes. I thought it was incredibly stupid for Musk to buy twitter, a never ending pit of problems unlikely to ever make money and basically nuking his reputation even more. Literally jumping head first into culture war issues. Guaranteed to make everybody on all sides angry.

shagie 4y ago
The difficult part is that Twitter messed up privacy in the past and now they need to be extra careful. The most recent rollout was a mess. https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cases/2010/06/100624twitteragree.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cases/2010... > IT IS ORDERED that respondent, directly or through any corporation, subsidiary, division, website, or other device, in connection with the offering of any product or service, in or affecting commerce, shall not misrepresent in any manner, expressly or by implication, the extent to which respondent maintains and protects the security, privacy, confidentiality, or integrity of any nonpublic consumer information, including, but not limited to, misrepresentations related to its security measures to: (a) prevent unauthorized access to nonpublic consumer information; or (b) honor the privacy choices exercised by users. > IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that respondent, directly or through any corporation, subsidiary, division, website, or other device, in connection with the offering of any product or service, in or affecting commerce, shall, no later than the date or service of this order, establish and implement, and thereafter maintain, a comprehensive information security program that is reasonably designed to protect the security, privacy, confidentiality, and integrity of nonpublic consumer information. Such program, the content and implementation of which must be fully documented in writing, shall contain administrative, technical, and physical safeguards appropriate to respondent’s size and complexity, the nature and scope of respondent’s activities, and the sensitivity of the nonpublic consumer information, including: ... I'm going to draw attention to the last sentence of the second one. For any new product (like "Twitter Blue") it must be documented in writing, with a comprehensive security information how it is designed to protect the customer.
dragontamer 4y ago
Would you trust your passport and/or driver's license information to Twitter right now? No. You shouldn't. This company lost half it's workers last week and morale is in the toilet. That info is unsecure. I don't think there is enough trust left in Twitter to even do verifications anymore.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  I mean Twitter already had process like that in place and many people trusted them with that. And I'm sure many large company, politicians and so on would have gone threw the verification process. Of course now maybe some people wouldn't anymore but when he took over twitter announcing that as a policy seem reasonable.
  - dragontamer 4y ago
    > I mean Twitter already had process like that in place and many people trusted them with that. And those executives responsible for that division have left the company, complaining about user privacy issues and security violations. https://www.engadget.com/twitter-privacy-security-executives-quit-twitter-blue-elon-musk-181237268.html https://www.engadget.com/twitter-privacy-security-executives... This is not the time to be trusting Twitter with your personal data.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      That's fine that you have this opinion, but I honestly don't think this is a factor that would stop most people. People on HN have a much different perspective on personal data then most people in the real world. And for companies it not really an issue either.
pimlottc 4y ago
> Allow anybody to get verified, they just need to present their passport and then their display name is fixed to that name, or if its a company you verify that. It's not quite that simple; there are plenty of individuals whose public name is not the same as their legal name. Some examples: - Violet Blue (journalist) https://twitter.com/violetblue https://twitter.com/violetblue - why the lucky stuff (Ruby coder) http://twitter.com/_why http://twitter.com/_why (defunct) - CGP Grey (Youtuber) https://twitter.com/cgpgrey https://twitter.com/cgpgrey - Alaska Thunderfuck (Drag performer) https://twitter.com/Alaska5000 https://twitter.com/Alaska5000 - Lil Nas X (musician) https://twitter.com/LilNasX https://twitter.com/LilNasX - Jadi (internet activist) https://twitter.com/jadi https://twitter.com/jadi (suspended)
- spoils19 4y ago
  As panick21_ mentioned, I don't understand what's so hard about this. Those people should move away from aliases (which are not used in a real town square in any format) and instead change to their real name. You see this all the time in conservative circles, where there is now an implicit level of trust and authenticity between all participants who do this.
  - RavingGoat 4y ago
    Aliases are most definitely used in a real town square... nicknames are common, shortened versions of names are used. Rarely do people go by their full name or sometimes use their middle name instead of their first name.
  - ksherlock 4y ago
    ``The Federalist Papers is a collection of 85 articles and essays written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay under the collective pseudonym "Publius" to promote the ratification of the Constitution of the United States.''
- Macha 4y ago
  My understanding from listening to his podcast is that CGP are the initials of his legal name and Grey his legal surname, although he only uses the initials as a moniker online and uses his not publicly disclosed first name in his private life.
everforward 4y ago
A technical issue with that is that names are not unique. I have the same name (from birth) as a famous person, and I've known a couple people who have the same issue. It also doesn't handle people who legally change their name (e.g. afaik there's nothing stopping someone from legally changing their name to "Elon Musk"). That's a much smaller threat vector, but it wouldn't surprise me if a few people did it. I would also imagine that it's trivial to create a fake passport that passes inspection once it's been passed through a scanner, stripping all the holograms and stuff off. That might be illegal, though I'm not sure if it's only the context of using it for Twitter.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  As I mentioned in my other comment, that cuts down the potential of impersonates from 10s of millions to a tiny number. Or incredibly motivated people. And it easily solved by taking it in the verification process. If you are getting verified and you have the same name as an existing verified account, its not that hard to verify that they are not trying to impersonate the other person. You are cutting down amount of cases by 100000x. > I would also imagine that it's trivial to create a fake passport that passes inspection once it's been passed through a scanner, stripping all the holograms and stuff off. That might be illegal, though I'm not sure if it's only the context of using it for Twitter. I mean if a country doesn't have working system of identification its not for twitter to fix.
RavingGoat 4y ago
If my passport says my name is the same as a famous person then should I still be verified? This whole anyone can be verified for $8 a month had zero chance at success.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Yes of course. As long as you don't claim to be that person with your picture its of course not a problem. Also, it isn't very common problem that people with the same name try to pretend to be that other person. It cuts the potential people who would want to impersonate from 10s of millions to like a couple. This same name issue is a tiny marginal problem dismissing the idea of paid verification based on that is crazy.

shagie 4y ago

The difficult part is that Twitter messed up privacy in the past and now they need to be extra careful. The most recent rollout was a mess. https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cases/2010/06/100624twitteragree.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cases/2010... > IT IS ORDERED that respondent, directly or through any corporation, subsidiary, division, website, or other device, in connection with the offering of any product or service, in or affecting commerce, shall not misrepresent in any manner, expressly or by implication, the extent to which respondent maintains and protects the security, privacy, confidentiality, or integrity of any nonpublic consumer information, including, but not limited to, misrepresentations related to its security measures to: (a) prevent unauthorized access to nonpublic consumer information; or (b) honor the privacy choices exercised by users. > IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that respondent, directly or through any corporation, subsidiary, division, website, or other device, in connection with the offering of any product or service, in or affecting commerce, shall, no later than the date or service of this order, establish and implement, and thereafter maintain, a comprehensive information security program that is reasonably designed to protect the security, privacy, confidentiality, and integrity of nonpublic consumer information. Such program, the content and implementation of which must be fully documented in writing, shall contain administrative, technical, and physical safeguards appropriate to respondent’s size and complexity, the nature and scope of respondent’s activities, and the sensitivity of the nonpublic consumer information, including: ... I'm going to draw attention to the last sentence of the second one. For any new product (like "Twitter Blue") it must be documented in writing, with a comprehensive security information how it is designed to protect the customer.

dragontamer 4y ago

Would you trust your passport and/or driver's license information to Twitter right now? No. You shouldn't. This company lost half it's workers last week and morale is in the toilet. That info is unsecure. I don't think there is enough trust left in Twitter to even do verifications anymore.

panick21_ 4y ago
I mean Twitter already had process like that in place and many people trusted them with that. And I'm sure many large company, politicians and so on would have gone threw the verification process. Of course now maybe some people wouldn't anymore but when he took over twitter announcing that as a policy seem reasonable.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  > I mean Twitter already had process like that in place and many people trusted them with that. And those executives responsible for that division have left the company, complaining about user privacy issues and security violations. https://www.engadget.com/twitter-privacy-security-executives-quit-twitter-blue-elon-musk-181237268.html https://www.engadget.com/twitter-privacy-security-executives... This is not the time to be trusting Twitter with your personal data.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    That's fine that you have this opinion, but I honestly don't think this is a factor that would stop most people. People on HN have a much different perspective on personal data then most people in the real world. And for companies it not really an issue either.

pimlottc 4y ago

> Allow anybody to get verified, they just need to present their passport and then their display name is fixed to that name, or if its a company you verify that. It's not quite that simple; there are plenty of individuals whose public name is not the same as their legal name. Some examples: - Violet Blue (journalist) https://twitter.com/violetblue https://twitter.com/violetblue - why the lucky stuff (Ruby coder) http://twitter.com/_why http://twitter.com/_why (defunct) - CGP Grey (Youtuber) https://twitter.com/cgpgrey https://twitter.com/cgpgrey - Alaska Thunderfuck (Drag performer) https://twitter.com/Alaska5000 https://twitter.com/Alaska5000 - Lil Nas X (musician) https://twitter.com/LilNasX https://twitter.com/LilNasX - Jadi (internet activist) https://twitter.com/jadi https://twitter.com/jadi (suspended)

spoils19 4y ago
As panick21_ mentioned, I don't understand what's so hard about this. Those people should move away from aliases (which are not used in a real town square in any format) and instead change to their real name. You see this all the time in conservative circles, where there is now an implicit level of trust and authenticity between all participants who do this.
- RavingGoat 4y ago
  Aliases are most definitely used in a real town square... nicknames are common, shortened versions of names are used. Rarely do people go by their full name or sometimes use their middle name instead of their first name.
- ksherlock 4y ago
  ``The Federalist Papers is a collection of 85 articles and essays written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay under the collective pseudonym "Publius" to promote the ratification of the Constitution of the United States.''
Macha 4y ago
My understanding from listening to his podcast is that CGP are the initials of his legal name and Grey his legal surname, although he only uses the initials as a moniker online and uses his not publicly disclosed first name in his private life.

everforward 4y ago

A technical issue with that is that names are not unique. I have the same name (from birth) as a famous person, and I've known a couple people who have the same issue. It also doesn't handle people who legally change their name (e.g. afaik there's nothing stopping someone from legally changing their name to "Elon Musk"). That's a much smaller threat vector, but it wouldn't surprise me if a few people did it. I would also imagine that it's trivial to create a fake passport that passes inspection once it's been passed through a scanner, stripping all the holograms and stuff off. That might be illegal, though I'm not sure if it's only the context of using it for Twitter.

panick21_ 4y ago
As I mentioned in my other comment, that cuts down the potential of impersonates from 10s of millions to a tiny number. Or incredibly motivated people. And it easily solved by taking it in the verification process. If you are getting verified and you have the same name as an existing verified account, its not that hard to verify that they are not trying to impersonate the other person. You are cutting down amount of cases by 100000x. > I would also imagine that it's trivial to create a fake passport that passes inspection once it's been passed through a scanner, stripping all the holograms and stuff off. That might be illegal, though I'm not sure if it's only the context of using it for Twitter. I mean if a country doesn't have working system of identification its not for twitter to fix.

RavingGoat 4y ago

If my passport says my name is the same as a famous person then should I still be verified? This whole anyone can be verified for $8 a month had zero chance at success.

panick21_ 4y ago
Yes of course. As long as you don't claim to be that person with your picture its of course not a problem. Also, it isn't very common problem that people with the same name try to pretend to be that other person. It cuts the potential people who would want to impersonate from 10s of millions to like a couple. This same name issue is a tiny marginal problem dismissing the idea of paid verification based on that is crazy.