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Everything you say is true. I would like to clarify that the regulations on "the financial system" have probably enabled just as much fraud as they have preven

by krupan 4y ago

Everything you say is true. I would like to clarify that the regulations on "the financial system" have probably enabled just as much fraud as they have prevented over the long run. The financial system you speak of is a huge collection of bets and leverage and interesting interpretations of the truth ("why yes, your money is 'safe' with us!"). The regulations make it work just barely well enough that it only comes crashing down, what, every 10 or 20 years now? If instead of adding regulations and saying, "there, now it's totally going to work, put your money back in," I wonder what things would look like if we had instead said, "yup, loaning your money to banks/corporations/governments/individuals is super risky, learn from past mistakes!" ? Maybe people would only risk what they can actually afford to lose and we wouldn't get into these cycles where people get over leveraged, things crash, bankruptcy gets declared, and the poor and middle class foot all the bills. Over and over and over. A libertarian can dream...

pjc50 4y ago
> loaning your money to banks/corporations/governments/individuals is super risky This is called a "low trust society". The flip side is of course that nobody will lend you money. Mortgages and consumer credit are scarce. Business credit is difficult. Large amounts of capital need to be tied up in buffers. The overhead of keeping an eye on everyone is considerable. You don't get "First World" levels of development with a low trust society.
- krupan 4y ago
  I actually really like the idea of not needing to rely on trust so much. Needing to rely on trust is a big problem that Bitcoin solves. There's no single Bitcoin Chair than can tweak the policy or supply of Bitcoin that you have to trust. No congress or president that can change the rules of the Bitcoin game that you have to trust. Bitcoin is impossible to forge, no trust that someone is handing you real money needed. There are no charge backs, payments are fully settled in minutes not days, you don't have to trust that you'll get paid and stay paid. No couriers, no middle men that you you have to trust to not steal your money in transit. If you want to prove to someone that you have the funds for something (like maybe FTX proving to customers they have the funds they said they did), you can sign a message with the private key of your wallet and everyone can verify that you have the funds in that wallet. Many of the crypto scams that are out there are claiming their coin has these same properties when it doesn't and that's where people at getting burned by "crypto." Yes, regulations could reduce the risk of these frauds happening, but they won't eliminate it. Bitcoin eliminates the risk.
  - jmyeet 4y ago
    Literally none of this is true: > Needing to rely on trust is a big problem that Bitcoin solves. No, it doesn't. As soon as anything is external to the Bitcoin network, you now require trust. This is so well-known it has a name: the oracle problem [1]. Crypto Andys, of course, just double-down and say we need more crypto. Just like libertarians who when confronted with the problems of lack of regulation they will argue the solution is even less regulation. > There's no single Bitcoin Chair than can tweak the policy or supply of Bitcoin that you have to trust. Instead there's unaccountable miners who with 51% of the hash power can completely rewrite the rules with no recourse. Bitcoin has already forked multiple times [2]. > There are no charge backs Chargebacks are a feature not a bug. > no middle men that you you have to trust to not steal your money in transit FTX customers may disagree. [1]: https://blog.chain.link/what-is-the-blockchain-oracle-problem/ https://blog.chain.link/what-is-the-blockchain-oracle-proble... [2]: https://www.cnbctv18.com/cryptocurrency/a-list-of-bitcoin-forks-and-how-they-have-changed-the-network-13318902.htm https://www.cnbctv18.com/cryptocurrency/a-list-of-bitcoin-fo...
    - krupan 4y ago
      You have just demonstrated quite a lot of ignorance about Bitcoin. A 51% attack has nothing to do with changing the rules of Bitcoin, just to start. Maybe don't slam something you don't really understand?

by krupan 4y ago

pjc50 4y ago

> loaning your money to banks/corporations/governments/individuals is super risky This is called a "low trust society". The flip side is of course that nobody will lend you money. Mortgages and consumer credit are scarce. Business credit is difficult. Large amounts of capital need to be tied up in buffers. The overhead of keeping an eye on everyone is considerable. You don't get "First World" levels of development with a low trust society.

krupan 4y ago
I actually really like the idea of not needing to rely on trust so much. Needing to rely on trust is a big problem that Bitcoin solves. There's no single Bitcoin Chair than can tweak the policy or supply of Bitcoin that you have to trust. No congress or president that can change the rules of the Bitcoin game that you have to trust. Bitcoin is impossible to forge, no trust that someone is handing you real money needed. There are no charge backs, payments are fully settled in minutes not days, you don't have to trust that you'll get paid and stay paid. No couriers, no middle men that you you have to trust to not steal your money in transit. If you want to prove to someone that you have the funds for something (like maybe FTX proving to customers they have the funds they said they did), you can sign a message with the private key of your wallet and everyone can verify that you have the funds in that wallet. Many of the crypto scams that are out there are claiming their coin has these same properties when it doesn't and that's where people at getting burned by "crypto." Yes, regulations could reduce the risk of these frauds happening, but they won't eliminate it. Bitcoin eliminates the risk.
- jmyeet 4y ago
  Literally none of this is true: > Needing to rely on trust is a big problem that Bitcoin solves. No, it doesn't. As soon as anything is external to the Bitcoin network, you now require trust. This is so well-known it has a name: the oracle problem [1]. Crypto Andys, of course, just double-down and say we need more crypto. Just like libertarians who when confronted with the problems of lack of regulation they will argue the solution is even less regulation. > There's no single Bitcoin Chair than can tweak the policy or supply of Bitcoin that you have to trust. Instead there's unaccountable miners who with 51% of the hash power can completely rewrite the rules with no recourse. Bitcoin has already forked multiple times [2]. > There are no charge backs Chargebacks are a feature not a bug. > no middle men that you you have to trust to not steal your money in transit FTX customers may disagree. [1]: https://blog.chain.link/what-is-the-blockchain-oracle-problem/ https://blog.chain.link/what-is-the-blockchain-oracle-proble... [2]: https://www.cnbctv18.com/cryptocurrency/a-list-of-bitcoin-forks-and-how-they-have-changed-the-network-13318902.htm https://www.cnbctv18.com/cryptocurrency/a-list-of-bitcoin-fo...
  - krupan 4y ago
    You have just demonstrated quite a lot of ignorance about Bitcoin. A 51% attack has nothing to do with changing the rules of Bitcoin, just to start. Maybe don't slam something you don't really understand?