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Clickbait article. Yes the price will go way up. Oxfam claims the doses cost $1 to make (maybe, maybe not Oxfam is guessing). Of course the "cost" to crank out

Clickbait article. Yes the price will go way up. Oxfam claims the doses cost $1 to make (maybe, maybe not Oxfam is guessing). Of course the "cost" to crank out 1 shot is going to exclude R&D, continued testing, ongoing strain testing, the inevitable lawsuits that arise through the course of business, compliance, cold storage and distribution, etc. Yes Pfizer expects to rake in money. Yes there are plenty of other options out there. The price is just a game for discounts, insurance deals, government payouts, all shenanigans. Most significant, no reason to get too incensed by this article.

tanseydavid 4y ago
>> Most significant, no reason to get too incensed by this article. Your opinion is appreciate but I disagree heartily. This article does not strike me at all as clickbait, and it completely worthy of "getting incensed" in my view. The way you describe the Oxfam "claim" while correct, is a strawman argument. Why, because they were already managing to capture $20 - $30 a dose.
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  > "getting incensed" in my view. Why do you feel the need that Pfizer deserves to not make a profit/why do you have an issue with the amount of profit Pfizer aims/wants to make/why do you feel your opinion on the subject matters/why do you feel qualified to "pick a bone" with how much profit Pfizer wants to make/why is it worth getting upset about/what control over the situation do you have that makes it worth your time/thought/resources?
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Also, we won't really conquer covid until everyone has built up immunity and the countries with the lowest vaccination rates are the ones that can't afford this kind of markup. This is still a problem that affects us all. Not saying that it would be less bad if it didn't affect us, but I mean that a hard-fought vaccine for a niche illness could have to be expensive to amortize development costs. Covid is not that. Ps and like @Beltalowda says a lot of their R&D was publicly funded. And they got a huge boost by bringing their thus far experimental RNA vaccine tech into the mainstream.
Beltalowda 4y ago
At least €375 million of that R&D was funded by the German government.[1] And that is just one very direct grant for this specific vaccine; other estimates total US government spending on the vaccine from $18 billion to almost $40 billion USD (not all directly to Pfizer/BioNTech of course). And the Covid vaccine situation is not exceptional: government is almost involved to some degree in the form of R&D grants, clinical trail grants, being based on fundamental research at universities, etc. And that's all fine; this is obviously a good way to spend government money as far as I'm concerned, and I don't really have any problems with Pfizer making a profit of it either, but ... there needs to be some balance. These people are socialist when it's convenient and then the next day they're hard-core capitalists when it's convenient. [1]: https://biontechse.gcs-web.com/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-receive-eu375m-funding-german-federal-ministry https://biontechse.gcs-web.com/news-releases/news-release-de... [2]: https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20210512.191448/ https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20210512....
- ethagknight 4y ago
  Those were apparently grants, evidently coming with no long term contractual obligations. We needed a vaccine very quickly and we got it. I agree there needs to be balance, but are you wishing government agencies had delayed the process and spent time with lawyers working out a royalty agreements or otherwise handicapping Pfizer's development cost recovery? What if Pfizer spent all the money to develop the drug and it did not pan out?
  - sieabahlpark 4y ago

tanseydavid 4y ago

>> Most significant, no reason to get too incensed by this article. Your opinion is appreciate but I disagree heartily. This article does not strike me at all as clickbait, and it completely worthy of "getting incensed" in my view. The way you describe the Oxfam "claim" while correct, is a strawman argument. Why, because they were already managing to capture $20 - $30 a dose.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> "getting incensed" in my view. Why do you feel the need that Pfizer deserves to not make a profit/why do you have an issue with the amount of profit Pfizer aims/wants to make/why do you feel your opinion on the subject matters/why do you feel qualified to "pick a bone" with how much profit Pfizer wants to make/why is it worth getting upset about/what control over the situation do you have that makes it worth your time/thought/resources?
GekkePrutser 4y ago
Also, we won't really conquer covid until everyone has built up immunity and the countries with the lowest vaccination rates are the ones that can't afford this kind of markup. This is still a problem that affects us all. Not saying that it would be less bad if it didn't affect us, but I mean that a hard-fought vaccine for a niche illness could have to be expensive to amortize development costs. Covid is not that. Ps and like @Beltalowda says a lot of their R&D was publicly funded. And they got a huge boost by bringing their thus far experimental RNA vaccine tech into the mainstream.

Beltalowda 4y ago

At least €375 million of that R&D was funded by the German government.[1] And that is just one very direct grant for this specific vaccine; other estimates total US government spending on the vaccine from $18 billion to almost $40 billion USD (not all directly to Pfizer/BioNTech of course). And the Covid vaccine situation is not exceptional: government is almost involved to some degree in the form of R&D grants, clinical trail grants, being based on fundamental research at universities, etc. And that's all fine; this is obviously a good way to spend government money as far as I'm concerned, and I don't really have any problems with Pfizer making a profit of it either, but ... there needs to be some balance. These people are socialist when it's convenient and then the next day they're hard-core capitalists when it's convenient. [1]: https://biontechse.gcs-web.com/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-receive-eu375m-funding-german-federal-ministry https://biontechse.gcs-web.com/news-releases/news-release-de... [2]: https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20210512.191448/ https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20210512....

ethagknight 4y ago
Those were apparently grants, evidently coming with no long term contractual obligations. We needed a vaccine very quickly and we got it. I agree there needs to be balance, but are you wishing government agencies had delayed the process and spent time with lawyers working out a royalty agreements or otherwise handicapping Pfizer's development cost recovery? What if Pfizer spent all the money to develop the drug and it did not pan out?
- sieabahlpark 4y ago