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You do. How would you otherwise demonize a Country that reached peak industrialization in a couple decades starting from a rural, semi-feudal society? - That e

You do. How would you otherwise demonize a Country that reached peak industrialization in a couple decades starting from a rural, semi-feudal society? - That established the 8 hour work day in 1917, - legalized abortion in 1920, - erradicated illiteracy and achieved a literacy rate of 75% starting from 25%, - Was the first country to build satellites and men to space? - Provided a decent standard of living to all their citizens while also suffering inmense pression from the First World? You really have to grasp straws to criticize a country that made such enormous progress in such short time and that improved the lives of millions while also being attacked from left and right.

wiseowise 4y ago
Millions starved to death in collectivization, even more millions displaced from their homes and sent to gulags. Intelligentsia eradicated as a class. The biggest and potentially richest country in the world collapsed due to planned economy. And that’s just my layman knowledge typing on a phone, I’m sure many historians can decimate your comment even harder.
- ozzythecat 4y ago
  > Millions starved to death in collectivization, even more millions displaced from their homes and sent to gulags. Intelligentsia eradicated as a class. The biggest and potentially richest country in the world collapsed due to planned economy. Communism didn’t work, for sure, but I’m not sure how this takes away from the things that the Soviets did accomplish, which op listed above. I also find it interesting the standard we judge the Soviets by. Millions have starved under capitalism, but in comparison to what? the Western world where we’ve been constantly at war with some country in the world, treating brown people as less than humans, causing refugee crises in the millions and civil wars? I know the typical response to this comment is something like, “Oh but that’s whataboutism”. Well the reality is that as an American, I we should have the self awareness to recognize that we’re like a skunk complaining about the stench from another skunk. Back to the original topic - the anti Russia frenzy is in full swing. This much should be clear to anyone, based on the tone of this article.
  - ztrww 4y ago
    half of the things op listed are false, though.
- asdff 4y ago
  The economy arguments always annoyed me about communism. No country would have an easy time avoiding economic collapse with a US and all her allies global embargo going on for decades. Plus we probably would not have won WWII so quickly if we had not resorted to using a planned economy to turn the nation from an economically depressed state still in the great depression into a global superpower.
  - rurp 4y ago
    The embargos weren't out of spite; the Soviet Union was an aggressive bad actor in a myriad of ways. I'm not sure why implementing a wartime economic measures is supposed to be a knock. The US economy is far from a textbook definition of capitalism, just like Communist China is nothing like the dictionary definition of Communism. All economic systems are hodgepodge of economic systems, full of good and bad ideas, some with more good than others.
    - my_city 4y ago
      "The embargos weren't out of spite" hahaha. Let me laugh more: HAHAHHAHAHA. You are the kind of guy who believes that American sanctions against Venezuela are "well-meaning", that the bombing of civilian populations are "shameful errors", that lying about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was "an honest mistake", that the invasion of Afghanistan was done to "combat terrorism" and that the bombing of Syriah was to "promote democracy and freedom", right? You sincerely believe that, correct?
      - ztrww 4y ago
        USSR did fairly well in the 50s, 60s and 70s though. Most of the really bad things (e.g. mass starvation) happened years before the cold war started. American companies like Ford invested into building factories in the Soviet Union in the 20s and 30s hardly a sign of an economic embargo. So you’re implying that US should cooperate with autocratic regimes and empower their rulers to further oppress the people living there? Obviously they tried that as well and I’m sure you’d criticize it as much. So which one is the right option? They should’ve hanged Sadam back in 91, the only problem is that it took two wars for that to happen. Getting rid of the Taliban was the right thing to do as well, but again the fucked up there miserably as well. Same in Syria (obviously you have the Russians involved there to which complicates things)
muaytimbo 4y ago
Things you forgot: - the murder of millions of innocent people - the worst nuclear accident on the planet Russia was bad then and continues today. Nothing needed other than history to make that case.
- my_city 4y ago
  The mythical "they murdered A GAZILLION PEOPLE". Yeah, totally made up numbers made by anti-soviet historians that inflated numbers and considered natural causes as "murder". You can say what you want about the Soviet Union, but thinking that they ORDERED the killing of millions is complete derangement. Were there economic problems and famines? Yes, of course, all countries with a rural economy are exposed to famines. Let me introduce you to the Irish famine, that killed millions in a capitalist country, such as Ireland. Can we count the millions dying of hunger is capitalist countries as victims of capitalism? "O'Leary pointed out that the decision-making by the government of the day was based on capitalist principles rather than ethnicity; its aim was to reduce the tax burden on the middle-class (who were of both main ethnicities) by clearing the 'unproductive' landless poor from Ireland." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) - the worst nuclear accident on the planet Thats a funny way of calling the bombing of Iroshima and Nagasaki. Iroshima and Nagasaki were not accidents, they were the purposefully killing of millions by an atomic bomb. They were not accidents, THOSE were murders.
  - wiseowise 4y ago
    > The mythical "they murdered A GAZILLION PEOPLE". Yeah, totally made up numbers made by anti-soviet historians that inflated numbers and considered natural causes as "murder". Tankie with his "made up numbers" again. What next are you going to say? Holocaust is made up to mud the name of the glorious Reich that lifted Germany out of poverty?
    - amrocha 4y ago
      The numbers are literally made up by an organization called "The victims of communism memorial foundation", that was literally started by the US government with the express purpose of spreading propaganda.
shagmin 4y ago
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to me and I think a lot of people that are likely to be on this site the Soviet Union just doesn't conjure up many rosy images or anything - no squeeze is needed. Having a list of accomplishments doesn't negate criticism. I'd actually argue going from a semi-feudal rural society to a hyper military-industrial one in such a short timespan and in a forced top-down approach actually made things worse in the long run. I'm biased though, since the only people I know from the Soviet Union were the ones who escaped.
ztrww 4y ago
yes, well slave labor is remarkably efficient. > legalized abortion in 1920, and later banned it. But then again tankies tend to be quite lose with facts > Provided a decent standard of living to all their citizens while also suffering inmense pression from the First World? What?! Is this sarcasm? Millions of people starved to death to a large extent due to misguided bolshevik policies between 1917 and the 1940s. That is arguably true only starting in the 50s and 60s.

wiseowise 4y ago

Millions starved to death in collectivization, even more millions displaced from their homes and sent to gulags. Intelligentsia eradicated as a class. The biggest and potentially richest country in the world collapsed due to planned economy. And that’s just my layman knowledge typing on a phone, I’m sure many historians can decimate your comment even harder.

ozzythecat 4y ago
> Millions starved to death in collectivization, even more millions displaced from their homes and sent to gulags. Intelligentsia eradicated as a class. The biggest and potentially richest country in the world collapsed due to planned economy. Communism didn’t work, for sure, but I’m not sure how this takes away from the things that the Soviets did accomplish, which op listed above. I also find it interesting the standard we judge the Soviets by. Millions have starved under capitalism, but in comparison to what? the Western world where we’ve been constantly at war with some country in the world, treating brown people as less than humans, causing refugee crises in the millions and civil wars? I know the typical response to this comment is something like, “Oh but that’s whataboutism”. Well the reality is that as an American, I we should have the self awareness to recognize that we’re like a skunk complaining about the stench from another skunk. Back to the original topic - the anti Russia frenzy is in full swing. This much should be clear to anyone, based on the tone of this article.
- ztrww 4y ago
  half of the things op listed are false, though.
asdff 4y ago
The economy arguments always annoyed me about communism. No country would have an easy time avoiding economic collapse with a US and all her allies global embargo going on for decades. Plus we probably would not have won WWII so quickly if we had not resorted to using a planned economy to turn the nation from an economically depressed state still in the great depression into a global superpower.
- rurp 4y ago
  The embargos weren't out of spite; the Soviet Union was an aggressive bad actor in a myriad of ways. I'm not sure why implementing a wartime economic measures is supposed to be a knock. The US economy is far from a textbook definition of capitalism, just like Communist China is nothing like the dictionary definition of Communism. All economic systems are hodgepodge of economic systems, full of good and bad ideas, some with more good than others.
  - my_city 4y ago
    "The embargos weren't out of spite" hahaha. Let me laugh more: HAHAHHAHAHA. You are the kind of guy who believes that American sanctions against Venezuela are "well-meaning", that the bombing of civilian populations are "shameful errors", that lying about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was "an honest mistake", that the invasion of Afghanistan was done to "combat terrorism" and that the bombing of Syriah was to "promote democracy and freedom", right? You sincerely believe that, correct?
    - ztrww 4y ago
      USSR did fairly well in the 50s, 60s and 70s though. Most of the really bad things (e.g. mass starvation) happened years before the cold war started. American companies like Ford invested into building factories in the Soviet Union in the 20s and 30s hardly a sign of an economic embargo. So you’re implying that US should cooperate with autocratic regimes and empower their rulers to further oppress the people living there? Obviously they tried that as well and I’m sure you’d criticize it as much. So which one is the right option? They should’ve hanged Sadam back in 91, the only problem is that it took two wars for that to happen. Getting rid of the Taliban was the right thing to do as well, but again the fucked up there miserably as well. Same in Syria (obviously you have the Russians involved there to which complicates things)

muaytimbo 4y ago

Things you forgot: - the murder of millions of innocent people - the worst nuclear accident on the planet Russia was bad then and continues today. Nothing needed other than history to make that case.

my_city 4y ago
The mythical "they murdered A GAZILLION PEOPLE". Yeah, totally made up numbers made by anti-soviet historians that inflated numbers and considered natural causes as "murder". You can say what you want about the Soviet Union, but thinking that they ORDERED the killing of millions is complete derangement. Were there economic problems and famines? Yes, of course, all countries with a rural economy are exposed to famines. Let me introduce you to the Irish famine, that killed millions in a capitalist country, such as Ireland. Can we count the millions dying of hunger is capitalist countries as victims of capitalism? "O'Leary pointed out that the decision-making by the government of the day was based on capitalist principles rather than ethnicity; its aim was to reduce the tax burden on the middle-class (who were of both main ethnicities) by clearing the 'unproductive' landless poor from Ireland." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) - the worst nuclear accident on the planet Thats a funny way of calling the bombing of Iroshima and Nagasaki. Iroshima and Nagasaki were not accidents, they were the purposefully killing of millions by an atomic bomb. They were not accidents, THOSE were murders.
- wiseowise 4y ago
  > The mythical "they murdered A GAZILLION PEOPLE". Yeah, totally made up numbers made by anti-soviet historians that inflated numbers and considered natural causes as "murder". Tankie with his "made up numbers" again. What next are you going to say? Holocaust is made up to mud the name of the glorious Reich that lifted Germany out of poverty?
  - amrocha 4y ago
    The numbers are literally made up by an organization called "The victims of communism memorial foundation", that was literally started by the US government with the express purpose of spreading propaganda.

shagmin 4y ago

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but to me and I think a lot of people that are likely to be on this site the Soviet Union just doesn't conjure up many rosy images or anything - no squeeze is needed. Having a list of accomplishments doesn't negate criticism. I'd actually argue going from a semi-feudal rural society to a hyper military-industrial one in such a short timespan and in a forced top-down approach actually made things worse in the long run. I'm biased though, since the only people I know from the Soviet Union were the ones who escaped.

ztrww 4y ago

yes, well slave labor is remarkably efficient. > legalized abortion in 1920, and later banned it. But then again tankies tend to be quite lose with facts > Provided a decent standard of living to all their citizens while also suffering inmense pression from the First World? What?! Is this sarcasm? Millions of people starved to death to a large extent due to misguided bolshevik policies between 1917 and the 1940s. That is arguably true only starting in the 50s and 60s.