3 ms·

It actually gives Enron a run for its money: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hamid-Ekbia-2/publication/28810197/figure/fig1/AS:276910446792712@144303200399

It actually gives Enron a run for its money: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hamid-Ekbia-2/publication/28810197/figure/fig1/AS:276910446792712@1443032003996/Example-of-Enrons-complex-SPE-structures-Redrawn-from-Swartz-and-Watkins-2003.png https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Hamid-Ekbia-2/publicati...

capableweb 4y ago
You should see the structure of companies like IKEA or others who really have a complicated corporate structure.
- wodenokoto 4y ago
  IKEA is notorious for having one of the most opaque company structures in the world. Word on the street is that ikea is technically a charity.
  - baby-yoda 4y ago
    This is a huge oversimplification but my recollection is, there is a design arm of the IKEA structure which is a non-profit. They create and own all of the designs and IP related to products, which a different IKEA subsidiary then licenses and pays royalties on, essentially negating much/all of the margin of the finished good.
  - bananapub 4y ago
    it's not a charity, it's a ultimately held by a pair of Liechtenstein and Dutch foundations, with an elaborate sea of holding companies underneath: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA#Corporate_structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA#Corporate_structure
- pjc50 4y ago
  Do you have a chart for our entertainment? (Does the IKEA org chart have the little figures from the assembly instructions, and an Allen key?)
  - otuutti 4y ago
    Might not be as complex with back and forth ownership, but for a "simplified" chart, AXA's 53 page presentation is up there: https://www-axa-com.cdn.axa-contento-118412.eu/www-axa-com/ebb2a10a-5c00-453b-b1ab-0326920620bc_axa_group_organization_charts_2021b.pdf https://www-axa-com.cdn.axa-contento-118412.eu/www-axa-com/e...
- nunez 4y ago
  FTX is worse: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/IKEAs-ownership-structure-Source-Figure-adapted-from-Administration-des-contributions_fig1_301703099 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/IKEAs-ownership-structur...
kmac_ 4y ago
It's quite common to spin off daughter companies per project, it isn't unusual or illegal in any way. Without at least type and ownership information it's hard to tell if it's iffy.
nocoiner 4y ago
That’s actually just a tiny, tiny subset of the overall Enron corporate structure. The chart you linked just shows the capitalization and ownership of one of the off-balance sheet structures that Enron used to conceal debt. This structure was capitalized with Enron stock, which worked great as long as the price kept going up, but once the value of that stock fell beneath a certain value, the single-purpose entity used here became insolvent and accounting rules (finally) required that that debt be consolidated back onto Enron parent’s balance sheet. It’s a situation with many interesting parallels in the crypto industry. Not only does history rhyme, but sometimes it really does repeat.

capableweb 4y ago

You should see the structure of companies like IKEA or others who really have a complicated corporate structure.

wodenokoto 4y ago
IKEA is notorious for having one of the most opaque company structures in the world. Word on the street is that ikea is technically a charity.
- baby-yoda 4y ago
  This is a huge oversimplification but my recollection is, there is a design arm of the IKEA structure which is a non-profit. They create and own all of the designs and IP related to products, which a different IKEA subsidiary then licenses and pays royalties on, essentially negating much/all of the margin of the finished good.
- bananapub 4y ago
  it's not a charity, it's a ultimately held by a pair of Liechtenstein and Dutch foundations, with an elaborate sea of holding companies underneath: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA#Corporate_structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA#Corporate_structure
pjc50 4y ago
Do you have a chart for our entertainment? (Does the IKEA org chart have the little figures from the assembly instructions, and an Allen key?)
- otuutti 4y ago
  Might not be as complex with back and forth ownership, but for a "simplified" chart, AXA's 53 page presentation is up there: https://www-axa-com.cdn.axa-contento-118412.eu/www-axa-com/ebb2a10a-5c00-453b-b1ab-0326920620bc_axa_group_organization_charts_2021b.pdf https://www-axa-com.cdn.axa-contento-118412.eu/www-axa-com/e...
nunez 4y ago
FTX is worse: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/IKEAs-ownership-structure-Source-Figure-adapted-from-Administration-des-contributions_fig1_301703099 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/IKEAs-ownership-structur...

kmac_ 4y ago

It's quite common to spin off daughter companies per project, it isn't unusual or illegal in any way. Without at least type and ownership information it's hard to tell if it's iffy.

nocoiner 4y ago

That’s actually just a tiny, tiny subset of the overall Enron corporate structure. The chart you linked just shows the capitalization and ownership of one of the off-balance sheet structures that Enron used to conceal debt. This structure was capitalized with Enron stock, which worked great as long as the price kept going up, but once the value of that stock fell beneath a certain value, the single-purpose entity used here became insolvent and accounting rules (finally) required that that debt be consolidated back onto Enron parent’s balance sheet. It’s a situation with many interesting parallels in the crypto industry. Not only does history rhyme, but sometimes it really does repeat.