5 ms·

> In other words, If you want to make the case the only definition of "empathy" is yours, you'll have to give me a good reason. Not that poster (and 12 days la

> In other words, If you want to make the case the only definition of "empathy" is yours, you'll have to give me a good reason. Not that poster (and 12 days late) but I want to chime in here because I believe they're right. Let's say the researchers are using definition 2 for empathy whereas the person you're replying to is using definition 1 - purely because I believe most people don't naturally use the researcher's definition. Let's give a scenario, a friend is working on an essay in a subject that I'm experienced with. They're struggling, they express this by tapping their foot, scratching at their head and shifting in their seat. I'm autistic, I don't respond to any of the gestures because none of them ring any alarm bells for me. After thirty minutes my friend expresses for the first time openly to me that they're frustrated and they're upset, they want my help. I now understand their experience and I jump in to help, assure them that the subject is just tough and that we can work on it together. In this scenario researchers using definition 2 for empathy will say I'm incapable of it because I couldn't preempt my friend's feelings without them expressing it explicitly to me. The poster you're replying to using definition 1 says I am capable of empathy, with the caveat that I can't be empathic to emotions I can't detect.

Chris2048 4y ago
But the researchers didn't pick just pick an alternative definition of the word - they identified two, including the posters definition. This represents a more complete picture of empathy, including your "caveat", than the statement "autism is not related whatsoever to the lack of empathy". There's also a component of this missing - empathy is usually somewhat non-intentional - as in you don't choose what signals make you feel. It's not clear to me an autistic person told something would have the same impact. Even in non-autistic people, an experienced narrated/described doesn't usually have the same reaction as one experienced, and I think this is an important part of empathy (in a game-theoretic/evolutionary sense) as something that is not calculated.
- chownie 4y ago
  > There's also a component of this missing - empathy is usually somewhat non-intentional - as in you don't choose what signals make you feel. This line is very difficult to draw because we freely pollute the meaning of empathy as an internal feeling with empathy as an external behaviour. Under this definition of empathy we could be compelled to consider blind people incapable of empathy as they're incapable of recognising facial expressions, for obvious reasons we know better. > It's not clear to me an autistic person told something would have the same impact. Even in non-autistic people, an experienced narrated/described doesn't usually have the same reaction as one experienced, and I think this is an important part of empathy (in a game-theoretic/evolutionary sense) as something that is not calculated. The autistic response isn't calculated either, just lacking the facility to recognise some behavioural expressions of emotion. I'm an autistic man but as a child I recall collecting mountains upon mountains of stuffed toys, when they piled high enough to tumble from the bed I'd wake to some of them on the floor and I'd weep at the thought those toys had felt "left out" by being pushed from the bed overnight. (I was very young, cut some slack) This kind of refrain is common, autistic people when questioned express feeling intense overwhelming affective empathy. Where autistic people classically struggle is in cognitive empathy employed as a social hierarchy mechanism and in socially acceptable expressions of empathy.

Chris2048 4y ago

But the researchers didn't pick just pick an alternative definition of the word - they identified two, including the posters definition. This represents a more complete picture of empathy, including your "caveat", than the statement "autism is not related whatsoever to the lack of empathy". There's also a component of this missing - empathy is usually somewhat non-intentional - as in you don't choose what signals make you feel. It's not clear to me an autistic person told something would have the same impact. Even in non-autistic people, an experienced narrated/described doesn't usually have the same reaction as one experienced, and I think this is an important part of empathy (in a game-theoretic/evolutionary sense) as something that is not calculated.

chownie 4y ago
> There's also a component of this missing - empathy is usually somewhat non-intentional - as in you don't choose what signals make you feel. This line is very difficult to draw because we freely pollute the meaning of empathy as an internal feeling with empathy as an external behaviour. Under this definition of empathy we could be compelled to consider blind people incapable of empathy as they're incapable of recognising facial expressions, for obvious reasons we know better. > It's not clear to me an autistic person told something would have the same impact. Even in non-autistic people, an experienced narrated/described doesn't usually have the same reaction as one experienced, and I think this is an important part of empathy (in a game-theoretic/evolutionary sense) as something that is not calculated. The autistic response isn't calculated either, just lacking the facility to recognise some behavioural expressions of emotion. I'm an autistic man but as a child I recall collecting mountains upon mountains of stuffed toys, when they piled high enough to tumble from the bed I'd wake to some of them on the floor and I'd weep at the thought those toys had felt "left out" by being pushed from the bed overnight. (I was very young, cut some slack) This kind of refrain is common, autistic people when questioned express feeling intense overwhelming affective empathy. Where autistic people classically struggle is in cognitive empathy employed as a social hierarchy mechanism and in socially acceptable expressions of empathy.