3 ms·

>the software produced 20 years ago still has value Which unmaintained piece of software written 20 years ago still generates revenue?

bryanlarsen 4y ago
Two goal post shifts in 1 sentence! "unmaintained" and "revenue".
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Then what's your definition based on your own goal posts? Making software that's sitting around and doesn't generate any revenue? That's either a hobby which is fine, or is a waste of resources, both in development and in storage/deployment. And if the 20 year old software isn't unmaintained but is actually constantly getting updated and support, then is it still 20 year old software or is it basically up-to-date software (the Ship of Theseus problem)?
  - bryanlarsen 4y ago
    It doesn't have to produce revenue, it just has to aid in the production of GDP. I don't pay for Linux, but it is a key part of the GDP I am responsible for. And while Linux is maintained, the vast bulk of the value it provides is quite old and almost unchanged.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      But the Linux we use today isn't 20 year old software. Sure, the foundation is over 30 year old, but most of the Linux code we use today is relatively fresh and is constantly being improved and updated. Again, I bring the ship of Theseus argument. I doubt my Android phone has too many lines of code written by Linus on it. Not many places are running software that saw no more active development for over 20 years. Even governments and banks are pushing updates to ancient codebases. Unmaintained 20 year old software would be the firmware running on your 20 year old car or microwave oven, as that's frozen on that system, not getting any more development. So, out of all products made by humans, software has by far the shortest expiration date, with the exception being food products.
      - bryanlarsen 4y ago
        bitrot is real. Is it comparable to actual food rot or the one way transformation of fossil fuels into energy? No.
        ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        You completely misunderstood my point. Yes bit-rot exists, but that's not what I was talking about. Software doesn't rot like food, it just stops being useful for its intended purpose if left un-updated for too long. Just look at my 10 year old Android phone. It still boots and works just fine, but having not received anymore SW updates for 8 years, it's completely unusable for its intended purpose today despite it still running. There's nothing wrong with the hardware, OLED screen is still very bright and sharp and I changed the battery and everything, but with such old unmaintained software it's basically an e-waste paperweight now. Most software doesn't stay useful forever, and without updates it has a shelf-life, as most software becomes useless after a while if left un-updated. So yes, my point stands, old un-updated software provides no value in most cases.
notamy 4y ago
I would imagine that there's probably a _lot_ of industrial machinery control software out in the wild that's still running on Windows 95/98/etc., where the company that wrote it probably went out of business 20 years ago.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Agree, but old industrial software that saw no development and updates in 20 years is too small of a sample from which to generate the conclusion that all software generates value forever. Yes, in the case of industrial machinery it does, but that's mostly due to the hardware itself not becoming obsolete, not the software running on the machine. Often times, machine operators would love to have the software updated and modernized, as he hardware on which it runs is good for decades without any improvements. Therefore I disagree with this conclusion. I think software is the thing which gets obsoleted and rots the fastest, not the hardware. Which is why SW development is in so high demand and wages so high in contrast to HW and mechanical engineering.

bryanlarsen 4y ago

Two goal post shifts in 1 sentence! "unmaintained" and "revenue".

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Then what's your definition based on your own goal posts? Making software that's sitting around and doesn't generate any revenue? That's either a hobby which is fine, or is a waste of resources, both in development and in storage/deployment. And if the 20 year old software isn't unmaintained but is actually constantly getting updated and support, then is it still 20 year old software or is it basically up-to-date software (the Ship of Theseus problem)?
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  It doesn't have to produce revenue, it just has to aid in the production of GDP. I don't pay for Linux, but it is a key part of the GDP I am responsible for. And while Linux is maintained, the vast bulk of the value it provides is quite old and almost unchanged.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    But the Linux we use today isn't 20 year old software. Sure, the foundation is over 30 year old, but most of the Linux code we use today is relatively fresh and is constantly being improved and updated. Again, I bring the ship of Theseus argument. I doubt my Android phone has too many lines of code written by Linus on it. Not many places are running software that saw no more active development for over 20 years. Even governments and banks are pushing updates to ancient codebases. Unmaintained 20 year old software would be the firmware running on your 20 year old car or microwave oven, as that's frozen on that system, not getting any more development. So, out of all products made by humans, software has by far the shortest expiration date, with the exception being food products.
    - bryanlarsen 4y ago
      bitrot is real. Is it comparable to actual food rot or the one way transformation of fossil fuels into energy? No.
      - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        You completely misunderstood my point. Yes bit-rot exists, but that's not what I was talking about. Software doesn't rot like food, it just stops being useful for its intended purpose if left un-updated for too long. Just look at my 10 year old Android phone. It still boots and works just fine, but having not received anymore SW updates for 8 years, it's completely unusable for its intended purpose today despite it still running. There's nothing wrong with the hardware, OLED screen is still very bright and sharp and I changed the battery and everything, but with such old unmaintained software it's basically an e-waste paperweight now. Most software doesn't stay useful forever, and without updates it has a shelf-life, as most software becomes useless after a while if left un-updated. So yes, my point stands, old un-updated software provides no value in most cases.

notamy 4y ago

I would imagine that there's probably a _lot_ of industrial machinery control software out in the wild that's still running on Windows 95/98/etc., where the company that wrote it probably went out of business 20 years ago.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Agree, but old industrial software that saw no development and updates in 20 years is too small of a sample from which to generate the conclusion that all software generates value forever. Yes, in the case of industrial machinery it does, but that's mostly due to the hardware itself not becoming obsolete, not the software running on the machine. Often times, machine operators would love to have the software updated and modernized, as he hardware on which it runs is good for decades without any improvements. Therefore I disagree with this conclusion. I think software is the thing which gets obsoleted and rots the fastest, not the hardware. Which is why SW development is in so high demand and wages so high in contrast to HW and mechanical engineering.