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Zoos depress me. Do you really have no problems seeings the locked up animals the entire time? Does seeing a tiger in a cage for the 200th time give you excitem

by joxel 4y ago

Zoos depress me. Do you really have no problems seeings the locked up animals the entire time? Does seeing a tiger in a cage for the 200th time give you excitement or something? Seems weird.

bombcar 4y ago
Some zoos are better than others. The San Diego Safari park for example, and even somewhat their zoo, is pretty wide open using pits instead of cages.
- mathieuh 4y ago
  A rose by any other name...
joenot443 4y ago
I think zoos can be depressing because we like to imagine animals as experiencing life the same way we do, in which boredom becomes paralyzing after a couple hours. Growing up on a hobby farm with chickens and horses, I never got the impression the animals were unhappy. I think if the option were given to most mammals, they'd choose life in captivity cage with fresh food every day and eventually a peaceful passing over a hungry life in the wild which eventually ends in becoming prey.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Sometimes you see animals doing things that pretty much indicates they don't like what they're in (a panther pacing back and forth in a 20x20 cage all day, for example) but with a larger enclosure I think we can say they're "satisfied" insofar as animals can be satisfied. It's probably better than being a pet for most of them. The "wild animal park" near San Diego has a 300 acre enclosure, for example. That's pretty darn big, and it houses various "compatible" animals. https://sandiegozoowildlifealliance.org/sites/default/files/2022-09/SP22.08.24.22_Map%20FRONT.pdf https://sandiegozoowildlifealliance.org/sites/default/files/... Of course, the depressing part of the little tram tour is the "and over here is the last male of this species". The good part is the park was started as a breeding ground for endangered species (animals don't breed well in small enclosures) and that has been pretty successful.
nunez 4y ago
Many of the animals in well-run (AZA-accredited) zoos are rescues that were injured in some way or another. They're given the best food they can eat, do not have to worry about predators, and receive amazing treatment throughout their entire stays. So I'd like to think that "locked up" is better than "dead" in this instance. In addition, zoos are also responsible for re-populating vulnerable or endangered species. Zoos spend a lot of money on this. They also return healthy animals back into the wild in service of this. See the AZA's standards on animal care here: https://www.aza.org/animal-management?locale=en https://www.aza.org/animal-management?locale=en As far as looking at a tiger for the 200th time goes, I mean, I never get tired of the dumb shit one of our cats does, and we've seen him way more than 200 times now! (We got him at three months old; he's 8 now.) I love getting glimpses into other animals that you would normally never see! Now, there are definitely shitty zoos that actually do capture and lock up animals purely for entertainment, with patrons none the wiser to it. The most popular "aquarium" in Houston, for example, is actually a restaurant and is not AZA-accredited, which is usually (not always) an indicator that the animals are abused and mistreated.
- joxel 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing these details. I've visited some places specifically marketed as "rescues" in my area (such as the Raptor Center in Charlotte, NC), but didn't realize some zoos have the same standards without explicitly promoting it.
  - nunez 4y ago
    Sure thing. Zoos are incredibly organized!
- nunez 4y ago
  I can't edit this anymore but another thing to point out about the link above is that one of the subpages contains care manuals for several types of popular animals and the statuses of other care manuals in AZA's pipeline that are being reviewed for publication. These manuals are INSANELY detailed. There is absolutely no question that the keepers who helped create these manuals genuinely care about the animals they tend to. (Some of the manuals specify how large exhibits should be depending on whether the animals are staying on exhibit for a while or are preparing for a transition back into the wild!) Folks that are on engineering organizations (like IEEE) or working groups (like the Kubernetes or Bluetooth SIGs) might appreciate the nuances here! I also learned that zoologists from Disney's Animal Kingdom are HUGE contributors to these manuals and that Walt Disney himself was key in inspiring zoos to shift away from entertainment and towards conservation!
ethagknight 4y ago
Strongly disagree. Bad zoos are depressing. Good zoos can be amazing. Yes, popping down to the Memphis Zoo for a few hours gives me and my family great joy. The animals are not free to roam the plains, but they are free from constant predation. More importantly, Zoos can be wonderful cultural centers, animal research, preservers of at risk species, educational and environmental education, on and on. Does it really seem that weird? HOWEVER, Memphis Zoo smells like… a zoo… and hard pass on that for a work day.

by joxel 4y ago

Zoos depress me. Do you really have no problems seeings the locked up animals the entire time? Does seeing a tiger in a cage for the 200th time give you excitement or something? Seems weird.

bombcar 4y ago

Some zoos are better than others. The San Diego Safari park for example, and even somewhat their zoo, is pretty wide open using pits instead of cages.

mathieuh 4y ago
A rose by any other name...

joenot443 4y ago

I think zoos can be depressing because we like to imagine animals as experiencing life the same way we do, in which boredom becomes paralyzing after a couple hours. Growing up on a hobby farm with chickens and horses, I never got the impression the animals were unhappy. I think if the option were given to most mammals, they'd choose life in captivity cage with fresh food every day and eventually a peaceful passing over a hungry life in the wild which eventually ends in becoming prey.

bombcar 4y ago
Sometimes you see animals doing things that pretty much indicates they don't like what they're in (a panther pacing back and forth in a 20x20 cage all day, for example) but with a larger enclosure I think we can say they're "satisfied" insofar as animals can be satisfied. It's probably better than being a pet for most of them. The "wild animal park" near San Diego has a 300 acre enclosure, for example. That's pretty darn big, and it houses various "compatible" animals. https://sandiegozoowildlifealliance.org/sites/default/files/2022-09/SP22.08.24.22_Map%20FRONT.pdf https://sandiegozoowildlifealliance.org/sites/default/files/... Of course, the depressing part of the little tram tour is the "and over here is the last male of this species". The good part is the park was started as a breeding ground for endangered species (animals don't breed well in small enclosures) and that has been pretty successful.

nunez 4y ago

Many of the animals in well-run (AZA-accredited) zoos are rescues that were injured in some way or another. They're given the best food they can eat, do not have to worry about predators, and receive amazing treatment throughout their entire stays. So I'd like to think that "locked up" is better than "dead" in this instance. In addition, zoos are also responsible for re-populating vulnerable or endangered species. Zoos spend a lot of money on this. They also return healthy animals back into the wild in service of this. See the AZA's standards on animal care here: https://www.aza.org/animal-management?locale=en https://www.aza.org/animal-management?locale=en As far as looking at a tiger for the 200th time goes, I mean, I never get tired of the dumb shit one of our cats does, and we've seen him way more than 200 times now! (We got him at three months old; he's 8 now.) I love getting glimpses into other animals that you would normally never see! Now, there are definitely shitty zoos that actually do capture and lock up animals purely for entertainment, with patrons none the wiser to it. The most popular "aquarium" in Houston, for example, is actually a restaurant and is not AZA-accredited, which is usually (not always) an indicator that the animals are abused and mistreated.

joxel 4y ago
Thanks for sharing these details. I've visited some places specifically marketed as "rescues" in my area (such as the Raptor Center in Charlotte, NC), but didn't realize some zoos have the same standards without explicitly promoting it.
- nunez 4y ago
  Sure thing. Zoos are incredibly organized!
nunez 4y ago
I can't edit this anymore but another thing to point out about the link above is that one of the subpages contains care manuals for several types of popular animals and the statuses of other care manuals in AZA's pipeline that are being reviewed for publication. These manuals are INSANELY detailed. There is absolutely no question that the keepers who helped create these manuals genuinely care about the animals they tend to. (Some of the manuals specify how large exhibits should be depending on whether the animals are staying on exhibit for a while or are preparing for a transition back into the wild!) Folks that are on engineering organizations (like IEEE) or working groups (like the Kubernetes or Bluetooth SIGs) might appreciate the nuances here! I also learned that zoologists from Disney's Animal Kingdom are HUGE contributors to these manuals and that Walt Disney himself was key in inspiring zoos to shift away from entertainment and towards conservation!

ethagknight 4y ago

Strongly disagree. Bad zoos are depressing. Good zoos can be amazing. Yes, popping down to the Memphis Zoo for a few hours gives me and my family great joy. The animals are not free to roam the plains, but they are free from constant predation. More importantly, Zoos can be wonderful cultural centers, animal research, preservers of at risk species, educational and environmental education, on and on. Does it really seem that weird? HOWEVER, Memphis Zoo smells like… a zoo… and hard pass on that for a work day.