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How does a centralized custodian like FTX or BlockFi failing change the fundamentals of Ethereum and DeFi? The promise of these systems is decentralization and

How does a centralized custodian like FTX or BlockFi failing change the fundamentals of Ethereum and DeFi? The promise of these systems is decentralization and removing counterparty risk. Everything is still going pretty smoothly in Uniswap and Aave protocols.

ShamelessC 4y ago
> The promise of these systems... That's really the whole problem - understanding how all of this stuff works requires a master's degree in cryptocurrency. Being smart enough to vet that it's actually implemented the way its proponents claim is even harder. You can point at some hypothetical future you imagined from the pure crypto first principles, but then I have to trust you. And so, ultimately all of this comes down to trust. Not "mathematical" trust but rather real, human vetting process that require actual work to be done by humans. The problem then, becomes that regardless of the foundations of your system, if enough bad actors take advantage of the systems inherently confusing nature, then no one will trust the people who are using it for good. And what point is there in a system that is only used for idealistic side-projects and deception?
- zeroclip 4y ago
  It doesn’t take a genius to understand how CEX and DEX handle your coins and withdrawals differently. It might take some years to educate the masses, even much of tech crowd on HN is not well informed on these differences. And trusting experts who distill and educate us on these things is fine, it’s how math, science, physics works. But we can verify the claims in these fields, instead of blindly trusting a single mathematician. That’s the idea of crypto too: don’t trust, verify. FTX was a case of trusting one entity with no verifiable proof of their actions. Uniswap is the case of trusting the code and protocol, and many people coming to consensus to verify it.
rich_sasha 4y ago
Executing on these platforms is so incredibly expensive compared to FTX and Binance. Availability is an issue - when chain is congested, fees skyrocket and it takes forever to get out. You can't short or leverage. Of course, in reality, you can't get your money from FTX either. But in current shape of crypto, there is certainly a point to having centralised exchanges.
- dannyw 4y ago
  yes you can. Use Kwenta, Dydx, etc. Shorting, leverage, L2 so low fees (in pennies)... all supported.
- zeroclip 4y ago
  Under load it might take a few minutes to execute a trade, which is better than just losing your asset because the exchange went insolvent. This is why L2 is actively being developed on Ethereum, and already processing a lot of volume. Same trustless withdrawals, but higher bandwidth and lower fees.

ShamelessC 4y ago

> The promise of these systems... That's really the whole problem - understanding how all of this stuff works requires a master's degree in cryptocurrency. Being smart enough to vet that it's actually implemented the way its proponents claim is even harder. You can point at some hypothetical future you imagined from the pure crypto first principles, but then I have to trust you. And so, ultimately all of this comes down to trust. Not "mathematical" trust but rather real, human vetting process that require actual work to be done by humans. The problem then, becomes that regardless of the foundations of your system, if enough bad actors take advantage of the systems inherently confusing nature, then no one will trust the people who are using it for good. And what point is there in a system that is only used for idealistic side-projects and deception?

zeroclip 4y ago
It doesn’t take a genius to understand how CEX and DEX handle your coins and withdrawals differently. It might take some years to educate the masses, even much of tech crowd on HN is not well informed on these differences. And trusting experts who distill and educate us on these things is fine, it’s how math, science, physics works. But we can verify the claims in these fields, instead of blindly trusting a single mathematician. That’s the idea of crypto too: don’t trust, verify. FTX was a case of trusting one entity with no verifiable proof of their actions. Uniswap is the case of trusting the code and protocol, and many people coming to consensus to verify it.

rich_sasha 4y ago

Executing on these platforms is so incredibly expensive compared to FTX and Binance. Availability is an issue - when chain is congested, fees skyrocket and it takes forever to get out. You can't short or leverage. Of course, in reality, you can't get your money from FTX either. But in current shape of crypto, there is certainly a point to having centralised exchanges.

dannyw 4y ago
yes you can. Use Kwenta, Dydx, etc. Shorting, leverage, L2 so low fees (in pennies)... all supported.
zeroclip 4y ago
Under load it might take a few minutes to execute a trade, which is better than just losing your asset because the exchange went insolvent. This is why L2 is actively being developed on Ethereum, and already processing a lot of volume. Same trustless withdrawals, but higher bandwidth and lower fees.