5 ms·

Make an accusation. Hushed "whisper lists" protect no one and allow merely suspicion to serve as indictment. Again, if something happens, make an open public

Make an accusation. Hushed "whisper lists" protect no one and allow merely suspicion to serve as indictment. Again, if something happens, make an open public accusation.

yathaid 4y ago
> Again, if something happens, make an open public accusation. What do you think will change if they do?
- randomdata 4y ago
  The Guardian will be able to publish an article with a little more substance.
akdor1154 4y ago
Having a private "possibly a sex pest" list sounds very useful, even if it has a couple of false positives, and even if most of its contents are based on anecdote. Having false positives in a public accusation would be a disaster for everyone involved. Additionally, a list that is private creates far less incentive for any malicious/spurious additions. A private list seems far more practical, sadly.
- Neil44 4y ago
  It does. But sadly this alleged list will now just become a football for politicians to play with, whispered allegations of who might be on it to damage your opponents, no recourse for those accused. And I really don't agree with the sentiment that a few false positives are OK in situations like this where lets face it accusation = guilt. We don't operate like that in any other areas of criminality and for good reason.
  - pjc50 4y ago
    > accusation = guilt We've been through months of "evidence=impunity". Partygate. Braverman getting sacked over a "but her emails" incident of deliberately leaking classified material and then getting reinstated six days later. Gavin Williamson. And much of the misconduct isn't actually illegal! It's just misconduct and intra-party bullying. The problem is there's no "adults outside the room" you can call on to make a determination. It's only a political system, a set of interlocking popularity contests.
    - Neil44 4y ago
      Just because you don't perceive justice to have been done is some other situations doesn't mean we should abandon any attempt at it in others.
  - bigfudge 4y ago
    Very few other crimes have such a low rate of action let alone conviction.
    - Neil44 4y ago
      All the more reason for official complaints rather than whisper lists, yes?
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  > even if it has a couple of false positives It's all fun and games, until you end up on the false-positive list. You get blackballed all the time, you career stops, you can't get things through, just because someone thought something and spread rumors, you don't know why, and can't do nothing about it.
  - madmoose 4y ago
    > It's all fun and games No, it's rape and sexual abuse.
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      I'm putting your name on that list, now deal with it. No more fun and games for you... and good luck proving you're not a rapist or a sexual abuser, since it's an unofficial unwritten list, spread by word of mouth.
      - madmoose 4y ago
        > I'm putting your name on that list, now deal with it I do not get the impression that any women would trust you with access to any such list, or would rely on you for such information. Mainly because you seem extremely worried about ending up on such a list, and do not appear in any way to be concerned about the women trying to protect themselves.
        ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        And you seem more concered about witch hunting without proof. If someone did something, they should be punished... we live in an era, where everyone carries a camera with a microphone in their pocket, and proving stuff is easy now. Noone should have the power to silently fuck with someone, because they want a promotion, that the falsely accused would otherwise get.
        madmoose 4y ago
ismokedoinks 4y ago
They absolutely do protect people against being in situations with people who have repeatedly endangered others. What responsibility do the survivors have to make an "open, public accusation"? They're going to derail their personal and professional lives to be openly scrutinized and reminded of a traumatic event? Obviously these politicians are known creeps and haven't been dealt with yet, why would anybody think that would change for them?

Make an accusation. Hushed "whisper lists" protect no one and allow merely suspicion to serve as indictment. Again, if something happens, make an open public accusation.

yathaid 4y ago

> Again, if something happens, make an open public accusation. What do you think will change if they do?

randomdata 4y ago
The Guardian will be able to publish an article with a little more substance.

akdor1154 4y ago

Having a private "possibly a sex pest" list sounds very useful, even if it has a couple of false positives, and even if most of its contents are based on anecdote. Having false positives in a public accusation would be a disaster for everyone involved. Additionally, a list that is private creates far less incentive for any malicious/spurious additions. A private list seems far more practical, sadly.

Neil44 4y ago
It does. But sadly this alleged list will now just become a football for politicians to play with, whispered allegations of who might be on it to damage your opponents, no recourse for those accused. And I really don't agree with the sentiment that a few false positives are OK in situations like this where lets face it accusation = guilt. We don't operate like that in any other areas of criminality and for good reason.
- pjc50 4y ago
  > accusation = guilt We've been through months of "evidence=impunity". Partygate. Braverman getting sacked over a "but her emails" incident of deliberately leaking classified material and then getting reinstated six days later. Gavin Williamson. And much of the misconduct isn't actually illegal! It's just misconduct and intra-party bullying. The problem is there's no "adults outside the room" you can call on to make a determination. It's only a political system, a set of interlocking popularity contests.
  - Neil44 4y ago
    Just because you don't perceive justice to have been done is some other situations doesn't mean we should abandon any attempt at it in others.
- bigfudge 4y ago
  Very few other crimes have such a low rate of action let alone conviction.
  - Neil44 4y ago
    All the more reason for official complaints rather than whisper lists, yes?
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
> even if it has a couple of false positives It's all fun and games, until you end up on the false-positive list. You get blackballed all the time, you career stops, you can't get things through, just because someone thought something and spread rumors, you don't know why, and can't do nothing about it.
- madmoose 4y ago
  > It's all fun and games No, it's rape and sexual abuse.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    I'm putting your name on that list, now deal with it. No more fun and games for you... and good luck proving you're not a rapist or a sexual abuser, since it's an unofficial unwritten list, spread by word of mouth.
    - madmoose 4y ago
      > I'm putting your name on that list, now deal with it I do not get the impression that any women would trust you with access to any such list, or would rely on you for such information. Mainly because you seem extremely worried about ending up on such a list, and do not appear in any way to be concerned about the women trying to protect themselves.
      - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        And you seem more concered about witch hunting without proof. If someone did something, they should be punished... we live in an era, where everyone carries a camera with a microphone in their pocket, and proving stuff is easy now. Noone should have the power to silently fuck with someone, because they want a promotion, that the falsely accused would otherwise get.
        madmoose 4y ago

ismokedoinks 4y ago

They absolutely do protect people against being in situations with people who have repeatedly endangered others. What responsibility do the survivors have to make an "open, public accusation"? They're going to derail their personal and professional lives to be openly scrutinized and reminded of a traumatic event? Obviously these politicians are known creeps and haven't been dealt with yet, why would anybody think that would change for them?