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> I don't want to listen to artists who use autotune. I _do_ want to listen to artists who don't. If you can’t tell the difference, why do you care? If you can
by klodolph 4y ago
> I don't want to listen to artists who use autotune. I _do_ want to listen to artists who don't.
If you can’t tell the difference, why do you care? If you can tell the difference, why do you need the label?
Speaking as an amateur musician, I think these arguments reflect a lack of understanding of how music production works, and how that’s connected to the artist’s creative vision. I’ll say that a big part of the blame lies with poorly used autotune. Just to pick an example, the entire first season of Glee is especially bad, to the point where I want to leave the room. Then there’s various places where autotune has been overused on singers who don’t actually need it to begin with (Bublé comes to mind), or where autotune has been used to cover up some sloppy singing. (Bublé is particularly illustrative—it is known that he uses autotune, but he has said that he doesn’t… I suspect that Bublé is simply unaware that autotune is being used. I suspect that many other singers are also unaware that they are being autotuned—but you can sometimes find clear evidence for it when you analyze their songs with a computer.)
But autotune is also used, manually, by producers, to make small adjustments as needed to improve a take. It can mean that the singer does fewer takes to nail the song, because with your comping and autotune choices, you get what you need faster. The amount of comping and autotune that you do is a matter of style and situation—producers are free to do comping and autotune as they see fit, to capture what they think is the best version of each part.
It means that you can say, “take 3 has the most beautiful phrasing and a lot of soul to it, it’s just a little sharp” and then manually adjust the pitch by the amount you think is appropriate.
> Normally when you make a statement like this on HN I'd expect to see a citation or reference to where that statement came from.
I’m not sure why you have that expectation or think that it is at all reasonable. Like everyone else, I have a lifetime of experience. Not everything that I tell you was written down in the first place, and I can’t reasonably be expected to remember the exact source for every piece of information, nor should I be expected to shut up just because I don’t provide a source for something I say.
- boomskats 4y ago> why do you need the label I don't want to get halfway through listening to a song to hit autotuned vox. I just don't, I'd like the option to filter on that. I would like a recommendation/discovery engine that eliminates that anxiety. > a lack of understanding of how music production works, and how that’s connected to the artist’s creative vision Quite the opposite. I understand music production extensively. I studied it, I have used it, half my social circle are studio engineers or conservatoire grads. I just want the option of filtering on artists whose creative vision _is_ the original vocal recording. > I suspect that Bublé is simply unaware that autotune is being used The only reason that man has a career is because his geriatric target audience is too old to know what autotune is (hence his denial is plausible). I'm pretty sure his record sales depend almost entirely on the abuse of autotune for the hard of hearing. He isn't an example I'd have used in this argument. > But autotune is also used, manually, by producers, to make small adjustments as needed to improve a take. It can mean that the singer does fewer takes to nail the song, because with your comping and autotune choices, you get what you need faster I totally know and appreciate all of this. Recording without it is considerably more effort and money, it's often not economically viable. Nevertheless, I want to be able to sometimes filter on it. > I’m not sure why you have that expectation or think that it is at all reasonable. Like everyone else, I have a lifetime of experience. Not everything that I tell you was written down in the first place When your argument is your opinion or something drawn from your personal experience, that's fine. However your words were: "Fact is, people say this, but when artists actually release music that uses no autotuning, it tends to be less popular". Stating a 'counterintuitive fact' the way you did suggests it was proven in a study or experiment of some kind. When putting arguments like that forward, most posters on HN tend to reference their sources. Otherwise your 'fact' is just an opinion. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is not a 'fact'. If you state something is a fact, I think an expectation that you can back it up with an external reference is entirely reasonable. > nor should I be expected to shut up just because I don’t provide a source for something I say Not sure where I said that you were expected to shut up. If I implied it I apologise. However, I stand by my expectations of providing external references for things stated as fact.
- klodolph 4y ago> I would like a recommendation/discovery engine that eliminates that anxiety. Is “anxiety” the right word? This is an unexpectedly serious way to phrase things and I’m not sure I understand you correctly. If you’re viscerally bothered by the presence of autotuning, I can see why that must be very frustrating. > I just want the option of filtering on artists whose creative vision _is_ the original vocal recording. I think the idea of “original vocal recording” gets weaker the closer you look at it. You want something that’s not autotuned, fine. You want to logically explain your personal preferences in terms of preferring the “original” audio recording? The logic doesn’t hold up. That’s okay, you don’t need to logically explain your personal preferences. In fact, I’d rather you didn’t. Pet peeve of mine. Maybe if you get a visceral reaction to bad autotune, I get a visceral reaction when someone explains the “logic” behind their personal preferences. It’s aesthetics. Maybe someone can bridge the gap between logic and aesthetics someday, but I haven’t yet met somebody who has succeeded. > The only reason that man has a career is because his geriatric target audience is too old to know what autotune is (hence his denial is plausible). The reason I brought up Bublé is because it illustrates that autotune is sometimes used even when the singer denies it, even when it’s unnecessary. Please don’t lay on the hate.