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Why do that as opposed to leaving and competing against him if they have a better idea of how to operate a social media site? His naysayers are convinced he's g

by memish 4y ago

Why do that as opposed to leaving and competing against him if they have a better idea of how to operate a social media site? His naysayers are convinced he's going to destroy it anyway.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
This is not how you win in a rigged system against a billionaire who weaponizes his wealth against everyone who does not take a knee and flouts the law whenever they see fit. The path to success is voting for decency over power, so I suppose we’ll agree to disagree. To unionize costs Twitter folks only their time and effort. The tools exists, just have to use them. This is what a hacker would do, isn’t it? Use the tools available instead of being goaded into some other mechanisms out of “pride”? https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/your-right-to-form-a-union https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/em... https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/what-we-do/conduct-elections https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/what-we-do/conduct-elections
- memish 4y ago
  Twitter employees are in the top 1%. They're not poor factory workers. They also own the means of production; a computer.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    Twitter employees certainly don't own Twitter's capital.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Tech workers are the new factory workers. I’m unsure why you’re advocating so hard for tolerating abuse from the extremely wealthy (cult of personality?), but that is your right. Abuse need not be tolerated when labor regulations provide you leverage against it.
    - ilyt 4y ago
      Yeah, nah. Most of them can easily find work elsewhere for as good compensation.
      - heavyset_go 4y ago
        So could factory workers.
    - ericd 4y ago
      Let’s not be hyperbolic, it’s a ridiculously cushy job by comparison.
      - eropple 4y ago
        That it's cushy (it is!) does not change that it's not a capital position. Your average tech worker makes company owners orders of magnitude more than your average factory worker, and are paid what they are because they can demand it. Business owners would pay less if they could. Why shouldn't tech workers, like any other worker, try to maximize their own lot in turn?
    - nunez 4y ago
      Let's compare the daily grind of a factory worker to that of an engineer at a place like Twitter (tech worker is really broad): FACTORY WORKER: - Gets up early, leaves late - Performs work that is rote down to a T - Works extremely hard, physically - On their feet for large parts of the day - Must join (and pay to be in) a union for benefits and such - Extremely fungable - Paid at or around the US median TWITTER ENGINEER - Gets up early...if they want to. Gets out late...if they want to. - Or they just pull up before your team's standup and peace out at 3pm - Work on extremely creative tasks b/c software is creative; so much so that some have really cool blogs where they talk about the 0.01% elite engineering shit they do - Work is extremely demanding mentally while you sit in >$1000 chairs and type on >$1000 standing desks - Need the standing desk and occasional walk to force themselves to be mobile - No union, but amazing benefits (see laid off Tweeps getting three months of pay) - Generally not very fungable - Paid several times above the US median, and that's before we consider their equity TL;DR: Come on, dude.
  - GolDDranks 4y ago
    A computer is not the means of production for Twitter. Twitter, the company, is in the business of producing ad impressions for the advertiser. They use Twitter, the platform to do that, so that's their means of production. A computer is just the tool to build and maintain the platform, not directly to produce value. (If Twitter were an IT consulting company, the computer would be a means of production for them.)
  - int_19h 4y ago
    They're still workers. Unions aren't "for the poor".
fnordpiglet 4y ago
As an engineer I may not know how to run a better social media product. My skill in developing software doesn’t necessarily translate into successful business operator. But I sort of agree, if you’re top talent at twitter it’s time to leave.

by memish 4y ago

Why do that as opposed to leaving and competing against him if they have a better idea of how to operate a social media site? His naysayers are convinced he's going to destroy it anyway.

toomuchtodo 4y ago

This is not how you win in a rigged system against a billionaire who weaponizes his wealth against everyone who does not take a knee and flouts the law whenever they see fit. The path to success is voting for decency over power, so I suppose we’ll agree to disagree. To unionize costs Twitter folks only their time and effort. The tools exists, just have to use them. This is what a hacker would do, isn’t it? Use the tools available instead of being goaded into some other mechanisms out of “pride”? https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/your-right-to-form-a-union https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/em... https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/what-we-do/conduct-elections https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/what-we-do/conduct-elections

memish 4y ago
Twitter employees are in the top 1%. They're not poor factory workers. They also own the means of production; a computer.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Twitter employees certainly don't own Twitter's capital.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Tech workers are the new factory workers. I’m unsure why you’re advocating so hard for tolerating abuse from the extremely wealthy (cult of personality?), but that is your right. Abuse need not be tolerated when labor regulations provide you leverage against it.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    Yeah, nah. Most of them can easily find work elsewhere for as good compensation.
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      So could factory workers.
  - ericd 4y ago
    Let’s not be hyperbolic, it’s a ridiculously cushy job by comparison.
    - eropple 4y ago
      That it's cushy (it is!) does not change that it's not a capital position. Your average tech worker makes company owners orders of magnitude more than your average factory worker, and are paid what they are because they can demand it. Business owners would pay less if they could. Why shouldn't tech workers, like any other worker, try to maximize their own lot in turn?
  - nunez 4y ago
    Let's compare the daily grind of a factory worker to that of an engineer at a place like Twitter (tech worker is really broad): FACTORY WORKER: - Gets up early, leaves late - Performs work that is rote down to a T - Works extremely hard, physically - On their feet for large parts of the day - Must join (and pay to be in) a union for benefits and such - Extremely fungable - Paid at or around the US median TWITTER ENGINEER - Gets up early...if they want to. Gets out late...if they want to. - Or they just pull up before your team's standup and peace out at 3pm - Work on extremely creative tasks b/c software is creative; so much so that some have really cool blogs where they talk about the 0.01% elite engineering shit they do - Work is extremely demanding mentally while you sit in >$1000 chairs and type on >$1000 standing desks - Need the standing desk and occasional walk to force themselves to be mobile - No union, but amazing benefits (see laid off Tweeps getting three months of pay) - Generally not very fungable - Paid several times above the US median, and that's before we consider their equity TL;DR: Come on, dude.
- GolDDranks 4y ago
  A computer is not the means of production for Twitter. Twitter, the company, is in the business of producing ad impressions for the advertiser. They use Twitter, the platform to do that, so that's their means of production. A computer is just the tool to build and maintain the platform, not directly to produce value. (If Twitter were an IT consulting company, the computer would be a means of production for them.)
- int_19h 4y ago
  They're still workers. Unions aren't "for the poor".

fnordpiglet 4y ago

As an engineer I may not know how to run a better social media product. My skill in developing software doesn’t necessarily translate into successful business operator. But I sort of agree, if you’re top talent at twitter it’s time to leave.