4 ms·

No, but the EU is.

threeseed 4y ago
Given what we saw in Netherlands with the dating apps this isn't going to make a single bit of difference. Yes Apple may be forced to allow alternate stores and payment methods. But they will still collect their percentage (in Netherlands it was standard 15% - 3% discount). What happened of course is that apps ended up being far more expensive on alternate stores than on Apple's one. And even worse for alternate stores is that it would be quite likely for technical reasons that your app could only be sold from one store. Which means you would have to give up the distribution of App Store for your largely insignificant one. And note that this was all found to be compliant with the government: https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/13/apple-dutch-dating-apps-payment-order-compliance/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/13/apple-dutch-dating-apps-pa...
- EMIRELADERO 4y ago
  The DMA is much more broader and strict than what happened in the Netherlands. Besides, what would you pay Apple for, exactly, when not using the App Store?
  - threeseed 4y ago
    You would be paying Apple for the cost of using their platform. No different to how you pay a percentage of sales for using most game engines.
    - EMIRELADERO 4y ago
      What platform? I already paid Apple for my use of iOS when I bought the phone. Are you implying people should pay Apple for making apps that call up iOS APIs? APIs that all the people who bought the phone and own a copy of iOS already paid for?
      - yazaddaruvala 4y ago
        As a customer you are implicitly if not explicitly buying an iOS device with the understanding it can only run iOS Apps. Apple's APIs are proprietary, and they charge 15-30% of all digital sales to to build an iOS App. This is not different than Epic charging X% for use of the Unreal Engine's APIs to build a game. That said, I would like to see Apple forced to document their hardware, and allow dual booting to other operating systems on their devices. While iOS can be AppStore wall garden, it should be possible for me to install Linux or Android on my iDevice / MacBook.
        EMIRELADERO 4y ago
        > This is not different than Epic charging X% for use of the Unreal Engine's APIs to build a game. It is completely different. You are distributing the Unreal Engine with every game you make. You aren't distributing any proprietary code with your iOS app, it only calls up APIs that are already paid for by the user and for which the user already has a copy. A good analogy would be me making a new control panel for a mechanical machine, where the panel has metal arms and rods that connect to the machine's original mechanisms to bring about a certain result that the machine itself would be incapable of bringing on its own. You wouldn't say I can't distribute that new panel I made because the original machine is patented, right?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        yazaddaruvala 4y ago
        If you tried to make money from it I’d say you owe the original machine and its patents a royalty.
        EMIRELADERO 4y ago
        Why so? I'm not selling or in any way distributing the patented machine, which is what really matters legally. Or are you arguing in an ethical sense?

No, but the EU is.

Given what we saw in Netherlands with the dating apps this isn't going to make a single bit of difference. Yes Apple may be forced to allow alternate stores and payment methods. But they will still collect their percentage (in Netherlands it was standard 15% - 3% discount). What happened of course is that apps ended up being far more expensive on alternate stores than on Apple's one. And even worse for alternate stores is that it would be quite likely for technical reasons that your app could only be sold from one store. Which means you would have to give up the distribution of App Store for your largely insignificant one. And note that this was all found to be compliant with the government: https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/13/apple-dutch-dating-apps-payment-order-compliance/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/13/apple-dutch-dating-apps-pa...

EMIRELADERO 4y ago
The DMA is much more broader and strict than what happened in the Netherlands. Besides, what would you pay Apple for, exactly, when not using the App Store?
- threeseed 4y ago
  You would be paying Apple for the cost of using their platform. No different to how you pay a percentage of sales for using most game engines.
  - EMIRELADERO 4y ago
    What platform? I already paid Apple for my use of iOS when I bought the phone. Are you implying people should pay Apple for making apps that call up iOS APIs? APIs that all the people who bought the phone and own a copy of iOS already paid for?
    - yazaddaruvala 4y ago
      As a customer you are implicitly if not explicitly buying an iOS device with the understanding it can only run iOS Apps. Apple's APIs are proprietary, and they charge 15-30% of all digital sales to to build an iOS App. This is not different than Epic charging X% for use of the Unreal Engine's APIs to build a game. That said, I would like to see Apple forced to document their hardware, and allow dual booting to other operating systems on their devices. While iOS can be AppStore wall garden, it should be possible for me to install Linux or Android on my iDevice / MacBook.
      - EMIRELADERO 4y ago
        > This is not different than Epic charging X% for use of the Unreal Engine's APIs to build a game. It is completely different. You are distributing the Unreal Engine with every game you make. You aren't distributing any proprietary code with your iOS app, it only calls up APIs that are already paid for by the user and for which the user already has a copy. A good analogy would be me making a new control panel for a mechanical machine, where the panel has metal arms and rods that connect to the machine's original mechanisms to bring about a certain result that the machine itself would be incapable of bringing on its own. You wouldn't say I can't distribute that new panel I made because the original machine is patented, right?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        yazaddaruvala 4y ago
        If you tried to make money from it I’d say you owe the original machine and its patents a royalty.
        EMIRELADERO 4y ago
        Why so? I'm not selling or in any way distributing the patented machine, which is what really matters legally. Or are you arguing in an ethical sense?