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So much deception and lies. Graham introduced a 15-week limit on abortions, not an outright ban: https://www.dailywire.com/news/sen-lindsey-graham-introduces-n

So much deception and lies. Graham introduced a 15-week limit on abortions, not an outright ban: https://www.dailywire.com/news/sen-lindsey-graham-introduces-national-15-week-abortion-ban-bill https://www.dailywire.com/news/sen-lindsey-graham-introduces... 15 weeks is similar to the limit in France and most European countries, which lean far more left than the U.S: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_France Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe France only allows abortions up to 14 weeks unless doctors certify the mother's life is a risk. Graham's bill similarly "offers exceptions for rape, incest, and the protection of the life of a mother during pregnancy." And The bill also "prohibits the prosecution of women who seek abortions." The point is: framing the proposed law as a "ban" is disingenuous because no one thinks abortion is banned in Europe, and yet this law is completely in line with European abortion policy. But dishonest framing is what the democrat party is all about, unfortunately. The reality is that abortion gets more obviously bad for both humans involved the later the abortion occurs. https://www.liveaction.org/news/researchers-abortionists-abortion-second-trimester-dangerous/ https://www.liveaction.org/news/researchers-abortionists-abo... "That study found that a woman’s risk of death from abortion increased by 38% for each additional week of gestation. Compared to women who underwent abortions at or before eight weeks (two months), women who underwent abortions in the second trimester were found to be “significantly more likely to die of abortion-related causes.” The results showed that “[u]p to 87% of deaths in women who chose to terminate their pregnancies after 8 weeks of gestation may have been avoidable if these women had accessed abortion services before 8 weeks of gestation.”" And from the baby's perspective: https://www.operationrescue.org/about-abortion/late-term-abortion/ https://www.operationrescue.org/about-abortion/late-term-abo... "a lethal dose of the heart medication Digoxin is injected into the baby’s heart or into the amniotic fluid directly through the woman’s abdomen. (Potassium chloride is infrequently substituted for Digoxin.) Digoxin gives the baby a fatal heart attack." Not exactly a peaceful or painless way to die! However, the alternative method, dismemberment, is even worse! https://www.frc.org/dismembermentabortion https://www.frc.org/dismembermentabortion If you want to abort, you should do it quickly, both to cut down on your own risks and to limit the pain and suffering of the human whose life you are ending. I would not like to experience death by heart attack or dismemberment either, if I can avoid it. And laws that protect the health of its citizens are clearly in scope. A late-term ban protects the health of adult women. That's one of the reasons these restrictions exist in other parts of the world.

nozzlegear 4y ago
> I don't see you campaigning for liberation of women from the non-existent far-right conservatives in power in France. That's because your FUD has no real foundation. Unfortunately, this tactic works, or it wouldn't be used so often. I’m not French lmao, I don’t care what the French are doing. It’s not my job to decide what’s right for them. > So much deception and lies. This is par for the course with the Democrat party, unfortunately. Ok > I don't know how anyone could support a late-term abortion after learning how the operation is actually performed! Who is supporting this? Are you implying that I’m supporting this? That sounds like some of that good old FUD you were talking about. > France only allows abortions up to 14 weeks unless doctors certify the mother's life is a risk. Graham's bill similarly "offers exceptions for rape, incest, and the protection of the life of a mother during pregnancy. The bill also prohibits the prosecution of women who seek abortions." Are France and the US suddenly the same country or something? What France does is irrelevant.
- PathOfEclipse 4y ago
  Here's an obvious idea. One way to measure the efficacy of a law is to compare it to the laws of other similar countries. If almost every country in Europe restrictions abortions by 15 weeks, maybe it should inspire some reflection as to why that may be the case. If you don't think that's relevant, then, well, you're really just being dishonest because you know it's relevant. And let's not pretend the abortionists think otherwise. When Ireland had banned abortions, activists sent ships there to give abortion services in international waters. What happens in the rest of the world affects everyone indirectly. > Who is supporting this? Are you implying that I’m supporting this? That sounds like some of that good old FUD you were talking about. You implied lots of people supported it with this very statement: "was certainly on the mind of all the people who voted against the Republican party this election". So, no. Nothing I said was FUD at all. Sorry! You lost that one.
  - nozzlegear 4y ago
    > You implied lots of people supported it with this very statement: "was certainly on the mind of all the people who voted against the Republican party this election". Ah. It was already clear that you weren’t arguing in good faith, but this attempt at twisting my words seals it. At the end of the day, it’s clear from the results of the election that American women and citizens in general have rejected these abortion bans, “limits” and restrictions on their personal freedoms. That is made especially clear in the states that had specific referendums on anti-abortion amendments like Kentucky where they failed overwhelmingly. Americans do not want Republicans placing restrictions on abortion, no matter what legally irrelevant European countries do or have done. I will not be replying further, have a good day.

nozzlegear 4y ago

> I don't see you campaigning for liberation of women from the non-existent far-right conservatives in power in France. That's because your FUD has no real foundation. Unfortunately, this tactic works, or it wouldn't be used so often. I’m not French lmao, I don’t care what the French are doing. It’s not my job to decide what’s right for them. > So much deception and lies. This is par for the course with the Democrat party, unfortunately. Ok > I don't know how anyone could support a late-term abortion after learning how the operation is actually performed! Who is supporting this? Are you implying that I’m supporting this? That sounds like some of that good old FUD you were talking about. > France only allows abortions up to 14 weeks unless doctors certify the mother's life is a risk. Graham's bill similarly "offers exceptions for rape, incest, and the protection of the life of a mother during pregnancy. The bill also prohibits the prosecution of women who seek abortions." Are France and the US suddenly the same country or something? What France does is irrelevant.

PathOfEclipse 4y ago
Here's an obvious idea. One way to measure the efficacy of a law is to compare it to the laws of other similar countries. If almost every country in Europe restrictions abortions by 15 weeks, maybe it should inspire some reflection as to why that may be the case. If you don't think that's relevant, then, well, you're really just being dishonest because you know it's relevant. And let's not pretend the abortionists think otherwise. When Ireland had banned abortions, activists sent ships there to give abortion services in international waters. What happens in the rest of the world affects everyone indirectly. > Who is supporting this? Are you implying that I’m supporting this? That sounds like some of that good old FUD you were talking about. You implied lots of people supported it with this very statement: "was certainly on the mind of all the people who voted against the Republican party this election". So, no. Nothing I said was FUD at all. Sorry! You lost that one.
- nozzlegear 4y ago
  > You implied lots of people supported it with this very statement: "was certainly on the mind of all the people who voted against the Republican party this election". Ah. It was already clear that you weren’t arguing in good faith, but this attempt at twisting my words seals it. At the end of the day, it’s clear from the results of the election that American women and citizens in general have rejected these abortion bans, “limits” and restrictions on their personal freedoms. That is made especially clear in the states that had specific referendums on anti-abortion amendments like Kentucky where they failed overwhelmingly. Americans do not want Republicans placing restrictions on abortion, no matter what legally irrelevant European countries do or have done. I will not be replying further, have a good day.