4 ms·

Why Heinz spent 185,000 hours redesigning this ketchup bottle cap

12 points by ppjim 4y ago

KindAndFriendly 4y ago
>> ...after 185,000 hours of product development, $1.2 million in investment... Their R&D engineers earn $6.50 per hour?
- tomschwiha 4y ago
  Maybe those don't count into the budget as the engineers were already there paid. Maybe they spend $1.2 million for the 3d printing and testing? The numbers feel a bit off.
ggm 4y ago
I'd love a diagram. The Silicone valve worked well. Good to implement something recyclable. I wonder where they are on the return-to-glass story and re-cycling?
- treesknees 4y ago
  It seems to be this pending patent for "Container, closure, and methods for manufacture" which contains many diagrams of the design https://patents.google.com/patent/US20220204224A1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US20220204224A1/en Fig. 4 especially points out the flow/direction of ketchup and air.
tomschwiha 4y ago
It seems there was some heavy delay - that news is from 2021 with a scheduled rollout in 2022. https://www.bloomberg.com/press-releases/2021-07-07/heinz-tomato-ketchup-introduces-first-100-recyclable-cap-delivering-the-perfect-eco-friendly-squeeze https://www.bloomberg.com/press-releases/2021-07-07/heinz-to...
tablespoon 4y ago
> Nine years later—after 185,000 hours of product development, $1.2 million in investment, and 45 different iterations—a new design will be rolling out in the U.K. within the next couple of months. Is that legal? That works out to just under $6.50 hour.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  This is journalist math. It's guaranteed to be wrong.
- xsmasher 4y ago
  Your math assumes the money was spent entirely on labor, not on equipment or prototypes.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Your math assumes the money was spent entirely on labor, not on equipment or prototypes. But wouldn't that reduce the hourly rate I calculated? I find it hard to interpret "185,000 hours of product development" as anything but 185,000 man-hours of product development.
- v-erne 4y ago
  I'm guessing outsourcing? With enough Bangalore interns You can get even more impressive numbers ...
AussieWog93 4y ago
Not an industrial designer, but is there any reason this couldn't have been changed out by one "10x" designer in a dozen iterations over a few weeks/months? It's a bottle cap with a valve in it, after all.
- legitster 4y ago
  Materials science is hard. It's one thing to 3d print the design, it's another to get the recipe for a plastic just right and a manufacturing process where the tolerances are perfect to make something like this work.
- morgango 4y ago
  LOL. This is genius level trolling. This is every executive at every tech company.
danjc 4y ago
Prices good, delivery time was terrible. Would not recommend.
legitster 4y ago
> In the U.S., even widely recyclable soda and water bottles often end up in landfills Arguably, this isn't a bad outcome. A lot of stuff that goes through the official recycling programs ends up in landfills! Landfills are cheap, effective, and safe. And if there is no market for low-quality recyclables, it's far superior to shipping them overseas to sit in open pits next to rivers. > While other packaging alternatives exist, Smith says they all come with tradeoffs. Glass bottles, for example, have a larger carbon footprint than plastic during transportation, because they’re heavier. (Also, the recycling rate for glass in the U.S. is abysmally low.) The company is still experimenting with other solutions, including a paper bottle that could potentially be used with the new cap. A good summary of why single use plastics are the current local minimum. It's at least nice to hear the industry regularly considers alternatives.
- gumby 4y ago
  Landfills take up space which in some areas is at a premium. Also, as they contain a lot of organic matter, they spew methane. And as they also contain a lot of nasty things like batteries, they leach all sorts of toxic plumes. Finally, though sequestering carbon by dumping it into a landfill sounds like a good idea, in reality plastic bottles themselves often contain nasty compounds (like various plasticizers) that themselves leach out if the landfill is perfused with water. They are a necessary evil, but too much stuff ends up in them.
  - legitster 4y ago
    Space could be an issue in some places. But there is a LOT of space in the US. And a good number of landfill land is reclaimed afterwards anyway. Methane is not really related to plastics - if anything the problem is exacerbated by renewables. But landfills could actually be part of the renewables picture here: https://www.epa.gov/lmop/basic-information-about-landfill-gas https://www.epa.gov/lmop/basic-information-about-landfill-ga... Leachate is also a landfill factor that has been MUCH improved over the last few decades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leachate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leachate I think people underrate how good modern landfills are. I think you'll find for most plastics, landfills are much less carbon intensive than recycling. And in some categories, they may even be superior to reuse.
squillion 4y ago
> Why Heinz spent 185,000 hours redesigning this ketchup bottle cap I bet the new cap is also cheaper to produce. They'll recoup the 1.2 million soon.

12 points by ppjim 4y ago

>> ...after 185,000 hours of product development, $1.2 million in investment... Their R&D engineers earn $6.50 per hour?

tomschwiha 4y ago
Maybe those don't count into the budget as the engineers were already there paid. Maybe they spend $1.2 million for the 3d printing and testing? The numbers feel a bit off.

ggm 4y ago

I'd love a diagram. The Silicone valve worked well. Good to implement something recyclable. I wonder where they are on the return-to-glass story and re-cycling?

treesknees 4y ago
It seems to be this pending patent for "Container, closure, and methods for manufacture" which contains many diagrams of the design https://patents.google.com/patent/US20220204224A1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US20220204224A1/en Fig. 4 especially points out the flow/direction of ketchup and air.

tomschwiha 4y ago

It seems there was some heavy delay - that news is from 2021 with a scheduled rollout in 2022. https://www.bloomberg.com/press-releases/2021-07-07/heinz-tomato-ketchup-introduces-first-100-recyclable-cap-delivering-the-perfect-eco-friendly-squeeze https://www.bloomberg.com/press-releases/2021-07-07/heinz-to...

tablespoon 4y ago

> Nine years later—after 185,000 hours of product development, $1.2 million in investment, and 45 different iterations—a new design will be rolling out in the U.K. within the next couple of months. Is that legal? That works out to just under $6.50 hour.

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
This is journalist math. It's guaranteed to be wrong.
xsmasher 4y ago
Your math assumes the money was spent entirely on labor, not on equipment or prototypes.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Your math assumes the money was spent entirely on labor, not on equipment or prototypes. But wouldn't that reduce the hourly rate I calculated? I find it hard to interpret "185,000 hours of product development" as anything but 185,000 man-hours of product development.
v-erne 4y ago
I'm guessing outsourcing? With enough Bangalore interns You can get even more impressive numbers ...

AussieWog93 4y ago

Not an industrial designer, but is there any reason this couldn't have been changed out by one "10x" designer in a dozen iterations over a few weeks/months? It's a bottle cap with a valve in it, after all.

legitster 4y ago
Materials science is hard. It's one thing to 3d print the design, it's another to get the recipe for a plastic just right and a manufacturing process where the tolerances are perfect to make something like this work.
morgango 4y ago
LOL. This is genius level trolling. This is every executive at every tech company.

danjc 4y ago

Prices good, delivery time was terrible. Would not recommend.

legitster 4y ago

> In the U.S., even widely recyclable soda and water bottles often end up in landfills Arguably, this isn't a bad outcome. A lot of stuff that goes through the official recycling programs ends up in landfills! Landfills are cheap, effective, and safe. And if there is no market for low-quality recyclables, it's far superior to shipping them overseas to sit in open pits next to rivers. > While other packaging alternatives exist, Smith says they all come with tradeoffs. Glass bottles, for example, have a larger carbon footprint than plastic during transportation, because they’re heavier. (Also, the recycling rate for glass in the U.S. is abysmally low.) The company is still experimenting with other solutions, including a paper bottle that could potentially be used with the new cap. A good summary of why single use plastics are the current local minimum. It's at least nice to hear the industry regularly considers alternatives.

gumby 4y ago
Landfills take up space which in some areas is at a premium. Also, as they contain a lot of organic matter, they spew methane. And as they also contain a lot of nasty things like batteries, they leach all sorts of toxic plumes. Finally, though sequestering carbon by dumping it into a landfill sounds like a good idea, in reality plastic bottles themselves often contain nasty compounds (like various plasticizers) that themselves leach out if the landfill is perfused with water. They are a necessary evil, but too much stuff ends up in them.
- legitster 4y ago
  Space could be an issue in some places. But there is a LOT of space in the US. And a good number of landfill land is reclaimed afterwards anyway. Methane is not really related to plastics - if anything the problem is exacerbated by renewables. But landfills could actually be part of the renewables picture here: https://www.epa.gov/lmop/basic-information-about-landfill-gas https://www.epa.gov/lmop/basic-information-about-landfill-ga... Leachate is also a landfill factor that has been MUCH improved over the last few decades https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leachate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leachate I think people underrate how good modern landfills are. I think you'll find for most plastics, landfills are much less carbon intensive than recycling. And in some categories, they may even be superior to reuse.

squillion 4y ago

> Why Heinz spent 185,000 hours redesigning this ketchup bottle cap I bet the new cap is also cheaper to produce. They'll recoup the 1.2 million soon.