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>but most people tip fine. We tip out of guilt. I literally freaking hate it, and I'm starting to tip less and less and prices go up. Why should I tip you to

>but most people tip fine. We tip out of guilt. I literally freaking hate it, and I'm starting to tip less and less and prices go up. Why should I tip you to pour me a drink? You are literally just doing your job. I don't call up my customers for a tip when I release an update to their program. I don't send them invoices with a TIP line and show how much 15, 18, 20% of the invoice is so they can add on to it. Tipping culture is literally (1) employers paying their workers as little as possible and (2) preying on peoples emotions. It's also a completely asymmetric transaction. How do I know if you are receiving below minimum wage or minimum wage/more? How do I know if you are getting healthcare, or other benefits? Yet I'm supposed to just assume you are being paid almost zero and give as much of my money to you as I can otherwise I will feel guilty. I'm ranting in general obviously, not at you. But seriously people tip out of guilt and thinking people like you are not making very much money otherwise. It's the dumbest system ever.

cammikebrown 4y ago
You literally don’t have to think about it. Just tip 20% every time you’re at a bar or restaurant. That’s it. It’s a way for us to make better money. If that 20% was included and hidden I know you wouldn’t care as much, but it makes it tougher for us to get legally paid as much. Did you even read the article?
- rebelos 4y ago
  Did you read his comment? His point is that this hidden costs system is grotesque. In fact, it is such a predatory tactic that it's either implicitly or explicitly outlawed in most parts of the developed world. It is also a convenient way to exploit many laborers beholden to tips, since a substantial part of their compensation is non-deterministic.
  - cammikebrown 4y ago
    I would be fine with getting rid of tips if we could get our labor laws up to the standards of the rest of the world, but until then we’re going to have tips.
- strix_varius 4y ago
  > You literally don’t have to think about it. Just tip 20% every time you’re at a bar or restaurant. It's interesting to me that two people can see the same statement from such different perspectives. To me, a statement like this shouts, "broken system!" Imagine if the calculator program on your phone was always incorrect, but in the same way: it was always too low by 20%. And then someone told you, "you literally don't have to think about it. Just add 20% every time you use it. That's it." Would that sentence make sense to you?
- pb7 4y ago
  Funny because it used to be 15% and in a few years, someone else will probably be saying 25%. Why are you complaining about inflation? Just pay 10% more, it's that simple!
- eatsyourtacos 4y ago
  > I’d rather risk a slow shift with less tips than work a job with a slightly higher hourly rate and no tips You can't argue both at once. You literally say above that you prefer tips because even if they increased prices you make more because of tips (i.e., making people feel guilty and throwing extra money at you). But then you tell me if it was 20% higher I wouldn't care. Both of those can't be true. I know you and I are being exploited when they want me to add 20% to the current prices. You literally just told me you make more money when I have to tip 20% than if prices were increased. Thus that means the TRUE price would not be a 20% increase. Therefore I'm being taken advantage of. And you are being taken advantage of because the employer is putting the variable risk on YOU. If there is less traffic in a place, that is on YOU. Why should that be your concern? If you work 8 hours, you work 8 hours. You don't control who comes in to the place. That's the employer's concern to choose a good location, advertise or whatever. But nope.. you are perfectly fine bearing that risk and perpetuating this stupid system. And you are correct- if they showed true prices with no expectation of tips and I know everyone is being compensated fairly then I don't care about the price. I lived the UK for many years. What you see is what you pay, including tax. People are paid, there is time off, national medical coverage etc etc etc. There's not a thought about it. And I hate the mind games here. Tipping is OPTIONAL. Live with it.

cammikebrown 4y ago

You literally don’t have to think about it. Just tip 20% every time you’re at a bar or restaurant. That’s it. It’s a way for us to make better money. If that 20% was included and hidden I know you wouldn’t care as much, but it makes it tougher for us to get legally paid as much. Did you even read the article?

rebelos 4y ago
Did you read his comment? His point is that this hidden costs system is grotesque. In fact, it is such a predatory tactic that it's either implicitly or explicitly outlawed in most parts of the developed world. It is also a convenient way to exploit many laborers beholden to tips, since a substantial part of their compensation is non-deterministic.
- cammikebrown 4y ago
  I would be fine with getting rid of tips if we could get our labor laws up to the standards of the rest of the world, but until then we’re going to have tips.
strix_varius 4y ago
> You literally don’t have to think about it. Just tip 20% every time you’re at a bar or restaurant. It's interesting to me that two people can see the same statement from such different perspectives. To me, a statement like this shouts, "broken system!" Imagine if the calculator program on your phone was always incorrect, but in the same way: it was always too low by 20%. And then someone told you, "you literally don't have to think about it. Just add 20% every time you use it. That's it." Would that sentence make sense to you?
pb7 4y ago
Funny because it used to be 15% and in a few years, someone else will probably be saying 25%. Why are you complaining about inflation? Just pay 10% more, it's that simple!
eatsyourtacos 4y ago
> I’d rather risk a slow shift with less tips than work a job with a slightly higher hourly rate and no tips You can't argue both at once. You literally say above that you prefer tips because even if they increased prices you make more because of tips (i.e., making people feel guilty and throwing extra money at you). But then you tell me if it was 20% higher I wouldn't care. Both of those can't be true. I know you and I are being exploited when they want me to add 20% to the current prices. You literally just told me you make more money when I have to tip 20% than if prices were increased. Thus that means the TRUE price would not be a 20% increase. Therefore I'm being taken advantage of. And you are being taken advantage of because the employer is putting the variable risk on YOU. If there is less traffic in a place, that is on YOU. Why should that be your concern? If you work 8 hours, you work 8 hours. You don't control who comes in to the place. That's the employer's concern to choose a good location, advertise or whatever. But nope.. you are perfectly fine bearing that risk and perpetuating this stupid system. And you are correct- if they showed true prices with no expectation of tips and I know everyone is being compensated fairly then I don't care about the price. I lived the UK for many years. What you see is what you pay, including tax. People are paid, there is time off, national medical coverage etc etc etc. There's not a thought about it. And I hate the mind games here. Tipping is OPTIONAL. Live with it.