5 ms·

It seems different in the US, where everyone is expected to tip as part of the overall price, like the article describes, and there is tipping Europe where the

It seems different in the US, where everyone is expected to tip as part of the overall price, like the article describes, and there is tipping Europe where the tip is not needed to boost the wage to an acceptable level but is simply to reward people who have gone above and beyond. In many restaurants in the UK, a "tip" is automatically included for large parties to reward the extra work required but can be removed on request if they didn't think your service was good.

dheera 4y ago
I live in the US and I HATE tipping. Just multiply all the menu items by 1.15, 1.18, 1.20, or whatever you need to ensure your wait staff is happy, and re-print the menu. Don't make ME have to bust out a calculator and do math after my meal, and then have to decide which of the above numbers I should use.
- pcurve 4y ago
  I always tip 20, but I honestly hate doing it for many reasons. I also hate separate sales tax. Just build it into the menu. I just got back from Portugal. 99% of places took cards. When you are ready to pay the bill, they bring out the portable POS machine, you tap your card, and you're done. No awkward tipping screen. No separate calculation for sales tax. No pressure to buy bottled water or charging of table fee like in Italy. What you see in the menu is what your final will be. Eating out was cheap, fun, hassle free, and tasty.
  - ac29 4y ago
    > I also hate separate sales tax. Just build it into the menu. Presumably this is in part for the same reasons as the article's take on tips. If one business includes sales tax in their prices and another doesnt, the one who doesnt is going to look cheaper to customers even though its actually the same price. Sales tax is also surprisingly complicated in the US. At least where I live, there is sales tax from the State, County and City in addition to a variety of special sales taxes for things like transit districts. It means, for example, its easy to find places where the sales tax is different on two sides of the same street (because there is a city boundary there or something else).
    - dheera 4y ago
      > Sales tax is also surprisingly complicated in the US. Sure but the sales tax number for your establishment's particular location is constant, so you can still build it into the menu.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    >I just got back from Portugal. 99% of places took cards. When you are ready to pay the bill, they bring out the portable POS machine, you tap your card, and you're done. No awkward tipping screen. No separate calculation for sales tax. No pressure to buy bottled water or charging of table fee like in Italy. Here in Japan, it's much the same. After you're done ordering, the server leaves a slip of paper in a special holder on your table with the bill written/printed on it. It's just a total of the things you ordered, which are clearly printed with prices on the menu. When you're done, you go to the cashier at the front with this paper, and pay. Most places take credit cards, plus various online options (PayPay, LINE Pay, etc.). Many also take Suica/Pasmo cards (the contactless cash cards you use to get on the subway). Sales tax is included in the price. Tipping *does not exist*. Water is free. (It's tap water though, but it's fine. Water quality here is excellent for tap water.) Table fees (cover charges) I think exist in some places but not in normal restaurants, and they're clearly shown before you sit down. Japan has more Michelin-star restaurants than anyplace in the world outside of France. Restaurants aren't much more expensive than cooking at home, depending on what you order/make of course. I honestly don't know why anyone bothers going out to eat in the US any more unless they're rich. It's a complete rip-off.
ghaff 4y ago
A default service charge is pretty common in the UK for sit-down food service at this point in my experience. In the US, it's a very path dependent thing. High-end restaurants have tried experiments to eliminate it but front-of-house staff in particular didn't like it because in many cases they made less money.
rhino369 4y ago
>there is tipping Europe where the tip is not needed to boost the wage to an acceptable level The internet gets the cause and effect on this backwards. Waitresses get paid 2 dollars an hour in much of the USA because they get tips. They don't get tips because they get 2 dollars an hour. You could pay waiters 60 dollars an hour and Americans would keep tipping.
willnonya 4y ago
The solution seems clear, stop tipping...
- dheera 4y ago
  The problem is, it requires everyone to stop tipping simultaneously for the owners to start paying wait staff properly. If only a small fraction of people stop tipping, they'll get shamed as assholes and nothing gets changed.
  - mkipper 4y ago
    Yeah. As an individual, if you stop tipping, a large chunk of (North American) society will think you’re a cheap asshole who’s disrespecting your server and won’t care that you’re taking a stance against a larger issue. There’s nothing wrong with ignoring those people. But I think the average person cares much more about social norms and being judged by others than the people suggesting to just stop tipping.
    - dheera 4y ago
      For me personally though it's less about being judged (the shaming part) than it is about whether or not what I'm doing is actually causing change to happen. If there isn't critical mass, the owners won't change anything, and it unfortunately does end up punishing the servers instead of the owners.
    - autoexec 4y ago
      > society will think you’re a cheap asshole who’s disrespecting your server Tipping in a restaurant where someone is waiting on you is different but, I have zero problems with refusing to tip at the register in retail stores, or for carry out orders at restaurants. I think we can collectively decide against that without fear of being ostracized by society. There's no "norm" right now that says I have to tip someone for a retail transaction, but there is pressure being put on us to normalize it so that businesses can save on labor expenses. Just say no.
  - cdkmoose 4y ago
1-more 4y ago
> In many restaurants in the UK, a "tip" is automatically included for large parties to reward the extra work required but can be removed on request if they didn't think your service was good. This is often the case in the US where it's default 18-20% for parties of more than 6-8 in my extremely unscientific recall. What's funny is that now 20% is already the default so they just made it a bit easier on the diner is all.
- tamiral 4y ago
  basically the same up in Canada large groups of people 6+ in smaller venues, 8-10+ in other for the group tip... and some even ask for another tip afterwards...
pb7 4y ago
Nearly every restaurant in London automatically adds ~12% even for 2 people. I don't know about the rest of the UK but it can't be drastically different.
wrycoder 4y ago
What extra work required? It seems to me that the attention paid per individual is always less for large parties than, say, a party of two. It's much less personal.

dheera 4y ago

I live in the US and I HATE tipping. Just multiply all the menu items by 1.15, 1.18, 1.20, or whatever you need to ensure your wait staff is happy, and re-print the menu. Don't make ME have to bust out a calculator and do math after my meal, and then have to decide which of the above numbers I should use.

pcurve 4y ago
I always tip 20, but I honestly hate doing it for many reasons. I also hate separate sales tax. Just build it into the menu. I just got back from Portugal. 99% of places took cards. When you are ready to pay the bill, they bring out the portable POS machine, you tap your card, and you're done. No awkward tipping screen. No separate calculation for sales tax. No pressure to buy bottled water or charging of table fee like in Italy. What you see in the menu is what your final will be. Eating out was cheap, fun, hassle free, and tasty.
- ac29 4y ago
  > I also hate separate sales tax. Just build it into the menu. Presumably this is in part for the same reasons as the article's take on tips. If one business includes sales tax in their prices and another doesnt, the one who doesnt is going to look cheaper to customers even though its actually the same price. Sales tax is also surprisingly complicated in the US. At least where I live, there is sales tax from the State, County and City in addition to a variety of special sales taxes for things like transit districts. It means, for example, its easy to find places where the sales tax is different on two sides of the same street (because there is a city boundary there or something else).
  - dheera 4y ago
    > Sales tax is also surprisingly complicated in the US. Sure but the sales tax number for your establishment's particular location is constant, so you can still build it into the menu.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >I just got back from Portugal. 99% of places took cards. When you are ready to pay the bill, they bring out the portable POS machine, you tap your card, and you're done. No awkward tipping screen. No separate calculation for sales tax. No pressure to buy bottled water or charging of table fee like in Italy. Here in Japan, it's much the same. After you're done ordering, the server leaves a slip of paper in a special holder on your table with the bill written/printed on it. It's just a total of the things you ordered, which are clearly printed with prices on the menu. When you're done, you go to the cashier at the front with this paper, and pay. Most places take credit cards, plus various online options (PayPay, LINE Pay, etc.). Many also take Suica/Pasmo cards (the contactless cash cards you use to get on the subway). Sales tax is included in the price. Tipping *does not exist*. Water is free. (It's tap water though, but it's fine. Water quality here is excellent for tap water.) Table fees (cover charges) I think exist in some places but not in normal restaurants, and they're clearly shown before you sit down. Japan has more Michelin-star restaurants than anyplace in the world outside of France. Restaurants aren't much more expensive than cooking at home, depending on what you order/make of course. I honestly don't know why anyone bothers going out to eat in the US any more unless they're rich. It's a complete rip-off.

ghaff 4y ago

A default service charge is pretty common in the UK for sit-down food service at this point in my experience. In the US, it's a very path dependent thing. High-end restaurants have tried experiments to eliminate it but front-of-house staff in particular didn't like it because in many cases they made less money.

rhino369 4y ago

>there is tipping Europe where the tip is not needed to boost the wage to an acceptable level The internet gets the cause and effect on this backwards. Waitresses get paid 2 dollars an hour in much of the USA because they get tips. They don't get tips because they get 2 dollars an hour. You could pay waiters 60 dollars an hour and Americans would keep tipping.

willnonya 4y ago

The solution seems clear, stop tipping...

dheera 4y ago
The problem is, it requires everyone to stop tipping simultaneously for the owners to start paying wait staff properly. If only a small fraction of people stop tipping, they'll get shamed as assholes and nothing gets changed.
- mkipper 4y ago
  Yeah. As an individual, if you stop tipping, a large chunk of (North American) society will think you’re a cheap asshole who’s disrespecting your server and won’t care that you’re taking a stance against a larger issue. There’s nothing wrong with ignoring those people. But I think the average person cares much more about social norms and being judged by others than the people suggesting to just stop tipping.
  - dheera 4y ago
    For me personally though it's less about being judged (the shaming part) than it is about whether or not what I'm doing is actually causing change to happen. If there isn't critical mass, the owners won't change anything, and it unfortunately does end up punishing the servers instead of the owners.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    > society will think you’re a cheap asshole who’s disrespecting your server Tipping in a restaurant where someone is waiting on you is different but, I have zero problems with refusing to tip at the register in retail stores, or for carry out orders at restaurants. I think we can collectively decide against that without fear of being ostracized by society. There's no "norm" right now that says I have to tip someone for a retail transaction, but there is pressure being put on us to normalize it so that businesses can save on labor expenses. Just say no.
- cdkmoose 4y ago

1-more 4y ago

> In many restaurants in the UK, a "tip" is automatically included for large parties to reward the extra work required but can be removed on request if they didn't think your service was good. This is often the case in the US where it's default 18-20% for parties of more than 6-8 in my extremely unscientific recall. What's funny is that now 20% is already the default so they just made it a bit easier on the diner is all.

tamiral 4y ago
basically the same up in Canada large groups of people 6+ in smaller venues, 8-10+ in other for the group tip... and some even ask for another tip afterwards...

pb7 4y ago

Nearly every restaurant in London automatically adds ~12% even for 2 people. I don't know about the rest of the UK but it can't be drastically different.

wrycoder 4y ago

What extra work required? It seems to me that the attention paid per individual is always less for large parties than, say, a party of two. It's much less personal.